1969 220D manual Clutch Bearing Problem - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dpl · #1 08-07-2008, 03:55 PM

Hi Guys,
My 69 220D Clutch is giving me problem. I have change and installed both new slave and master clutch cylinders, inspected if it was bleed right that section seems alright.
I might be needing a bearing plate or so because the symptoms are:
1. when driving the car get stock in gear # 1 and will not shift into another gear. This usually happens when I am up driving and when stop at a stop light and pull off in gear 1 and try to go in 2nd gear it will not go it will lockup on me.
2. some times It make a grinding noise when shifting in gear especially lower gears.
3. some times it will not go into any gear just get stuck in nutural.
4. if it gets into gear it will only stays or get stuck in in 1st gear.

All the mechanics and guys from the shop forum has told me that the clutch release bearing, clutch disk, clutch preasure plate are out need new once. inorder to install new once you have to remove the transmission. I will like to DIY the work all by myself but before I proceed or start can someone or do anyone out there have done this before or have a picture instructions on how to install the clutch disk?
Please! Please! fellows if anybody have a dvd, DIY repair on installing 220D benz clutch disk or preasure plate, or how to picture on the internet I will be greatfull.

I am a movited DIY person with lots of patience but I hate doing the job 2x that is why I do investigate, research, and seek advice to get the correct data to do the project or get it right the 1st time.
thanks
dpl

bgkast · #2 08-07-2008, 04:00 PM

It's not a bad job. I think the haynes manual covers it fairly well.

Stevo · #3 08-07-2008, 09:35 PM

Sounds to me like you still have air in the system. How did you do the bleed?

dpl · #4 08-08-2008, 01:35 AM

No I do not have air in the clutch. I took the car to Sig ******** and he was so nice to let me work on the car at his auto repair shop. He inspected after I was done and he test drove the car with and the gear was still getting stuck. the clutch goes down and up normally very prefect.
Sig the old brazilian guy took it back in his shop while I was there and put it up and inspected the clutch again and transmission and said it is the clutch disk or presure plate. He wanted wanted $900 to get it fixed and I asked him to let me buy the parts if he will bring the price down to $150 if I could fix it myself at his shop because I did not have the money and he said no.
Now it is back home with me and I need to order the parts to get it fixed asap.
Steve and other DIY forum member please help me out if you can by showing me where can I find a picture with instructions how to install a new clutch disk and preasure plate.
I know that you have to remove the transmission 1st But I do not know how to remove the transmission? what to watch out for for when you are seperating the clutch from the tanny?
Please help guys
thanks dpl

t walgamuth · #5 08-08-2008, 06:01 AM

your clutch seems to not be disengaging.

If you are sure the hydraulics are in order, the flywheel may be worn enough to cause difficulty.....this can happen if a new clutch disc is installed without planing the flywheel.

Another way you can have these symptoms is if the pilot bearing is siezed, the pressure plate may also be failing and this can cause the trouble too, but there is no way to tell which it is that I know of without tearing it apart.

Be sure your hydraulics are working first.

Tom W

dabenz · #6 08-08-2008, 10:13 AM

dpl, these clutches are pretty tough. You'll hear the throw-out bearing long before the plates & pads need repairing. Looks to me like 1) clutch actuator isn't bled as good as you think, 2) you may be in need of a transmission oil change, 3) the transmission external shift linkages are dirty or out of adjustment, 4) the transmission shifter stick "guide plate" is getting worn, or 5) the gear synchros are getting worn.

Did you "bench bleed" the master and slave before you intalled them?

Do third and fourth gears seem OK, up and down?

Do a patient search on this web site and you'll find many references to the tried-and-true bleeding method: a tube from front right brake caliper to the clutch slave actuator.

Same deal for the "correct" transmission fluid.

Same deal for the shift linkage adjustment.

A fellow named Leathermang did a little write-up about that guide plate, as part of a series of posts about diagnosing and repairing a manual transmission.

If it was my car then I'd bleed the actuator, change the transmission oil, make sure the linkages are clean and lubricated. Then try driving the car, using the "one sideways wiggle" with the stick before trying to slide into the next gear. Synchros are nice, but I also try to match rpms when I shift. Then I'd think about adjusting the shift linkages a bit. You'll need a buddy to wiggle the stick while you look underneath to figure out which is which. Write down what you did so you can change it back if needed.

Stevo · #7 08-08-2008, 11:34 AM

If you do need to pull the tranny its a pretty straight forward job. Disconnect the drive shaft and wire it up out of your way, disconnect the shift linkage, disconnect the clutch slave from the tranny and wire it up out of the way (that way you wont need to bleed the system again), unbolt the bellhousing and pull the tranny back. To install the new disc you will need a "pilot shaft" that matches the input shaft of your tranny (I use the input shaft from a "80"s Volvo) or a plastic one may be supplied with the new clutch or you may need to order one. I would look for at least a Haynes manual if you have to do this job. This is only a rough out line but its really not that difficult, just take your time. Try and find another MB guy to give you another diagnoses, it sure sounds like air in the system.

Stevo · #8 08-11-2008, 01:15 PM

Any outcome to this story?

dpl · #9 08-14-2008, 01:17 AM

Thanks steve, dabenz, and all others for your advice.
Well it will just not go into reverse R. if I try to put it in reverse the gear grinds and makes a pretty loud grinding noise.
I have not taken it appart yet. but when I do take the tanny apart I will let my friend video tape the process and will take pix every step of the way.
It is not the clutch
thanks a million is there any more advice?
dpl

dpl · #10 08-14-2008, 01:43 AM

hi dabenz,
I did bleed the master/slave before installing.
2. Now I drove it 2 days ago it can go in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear with an ease.
3. will not go into reverse R no matter how I try. if I try it grinds and makes a pretty loud grinding noise.
4. my hydrolic works fine.
5. will pluge the tanny and change the tanny oil
thanks dpl

dabenz · #11 08-14-2008, 07:42 AM

dpl, I'm sure you know that you need to "lift" the stick before moving from "forward neutral" into "reverse neutral." By now the shift linkages should be clean and lubricated, or you can do it while waiting for the transmission oil to drip out. That transmission oil change is probably a few years overdue.

Can you go into and out of reverse with the engine shut off? You may need to manually rock the car a bit to find the sweet spot (then use wheel chocks to hold the car still). In a perfect world you should be able to go into and out of any gear this way.

The two biggest reasons for reverse "grinding" are:
1) engine idle speed too high or you forgot to turn down the high idle knob on the dash (I know I do).
2) clutch actuator needs bleeding. Reverse gear is the best test for a good bleed job.

Keep at it. Tearing into a clutch or transmission should be the final solution, and most of the time it's not needed.

Stevo · #12 08-14-2008, 04:11 PM

Sounds like your making progress. I agree with debenz, "Tearing into a clutch or transmission should be the final solution" Did you check the bushings at both ends of the shift rods?

Graminal95 · #13 08-14-2008, 08:52 PM

It should be an easy job on a 220D. I just did a clutch on my 83' 240D in the yard in about 6hrs by myself with only hand tools and a floor jack.

Check out the DIY link for a clutch job on a 616, there is an OK description and photos too.

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM616Clutch240D

t walgamuth · #14 08-14-2008, 09:29 PM

if it is grinding into reverse and not engaging at all that sounds like a clutch not fully disengaging.

Tom W

dpl · #15 08-15-2008, 12:59 AM

Hey Tom W,
You are right it sounds like a clutch not fully disengaging.
Steve: I did not check the bushing at both end of the shift rod.
dabenz: yes I do know that I need to lift the stick up to put in "r neutural" I am new to this I am taking a trip to seattle wa on friday morniing saturday and sunday is my car day will follow all value advice from all of you guys and start working on the car change all hoses, pluge tanny and change the tanny oil. test drive if work I will still take of the tanny and change every part that needs changing, grease both ends of the shift rod, I need to take the tanny apart to discover which part I will need to buy. when I do that I will I will take pictures and write or point to the part on the photo if I do not know what part it is and attached on the forum for you guys to help me with the part name that I can order/buy the correct parts. another question dabenz where and how do i turn down the high idle knob on the dash?
I remembered that one of the mechanic told me that the car is fabriting and idleing because I may need an engine mount? But I will go with what you say/follow your advice.
Graminal95: thanks a million for showing me that link.
Thanks to every one and I can sure use more advice.
dpl