Hi All,

Been perusing this forum while shopping for an old MB. Want something cheap and safe that my teen can drive, and so can I. I am a former grease monkey, rebuilt the engines in my mom's old cadillac and my own fiat in the early 80s. Now the kids getting older, driving, and could use something that combines my old hobby with some safe transportation. My alternative to an MB is an old Volvo brick. I am a volvo owner, but the diesel appeals to me, and my son thinks an old slow MB is very cool.

Of the cars I have seen out there, there are a couple that appeal to me. I will describe them briefly. I have no emotion invested in this, and "run away" is a suitable answer. What I am looking for is what questions to ask the owners that might be specific to these cars. I know enough about the general issues of buying a sagging old car, but I would like to know how to spot trouble (or value) in a 240/300. I will drive each of these cars unless you all say "run away".

Hypothetical car 1: 82-83 300TD, 300K miles with owner records. Touches of rust but not systemic, AC works, new timing chain, driver reports 30+ MPG.
Hypothetical car 2: 81-82 240D 4-sp manual. 200K. minimal rust. Garaged for years, but cleaned it out, put in a new battery, and it started right up. Being sold by an import car tech.

Owners asking $2500...

I thank you for your patience with a newb...

Both cars as far as model are concerned have their plus sides.
A 300D, years from 82-85 are a good in freeway trafic car with plenty of pickup.
A 240D from 77-about 82 I think werer a simple but slower car. My PERSONAL impression of a 240 is that you have to anticipate ahead of time due to lower power. You have to "drive" it more than the 300 turbo. I own a '77 240D with the automatic. I do drive it on the freeway but I will take my Cummins powered Dodge with 395hp alot more often. I use the 240 for mainly around town. If you compare fuel mileage between the two, For maybe 2-3mpg less, I would take a 300 turbo any day. MY $0.02
I personally would ALWAYS pay a few dollars more for a lower mileage car also. Keep looking.

__________________
My Truck.. 2007 DODGE, 5.9 Cummins, 6spd stick, 4X4. My car..1977 240D, OTHER WHEELS...1955 VW Oval window bug, European Delivery (Holland) with a 1700cc, 2 barrel, Porsche drum brakes. 1939 WILLYS Pick-up. 1967 Triumph 200cc Tiger Cub. 1976 Honda 550F 4cyl Motor Cycle.

Assuming you really do mean a 300TD (the wagon) and not a 300D (with turbo) I own one of each...

Well, Click and Clack of Car talk say there is no reason to teach a modern-day teen how to drive a standard transmission - they are going to be extinct within our lifetime.


That said, with the minimal info you gave, I would opt for the 240D IF the seller has records documenting the mileage. (Same can be said for the 300D). The odos on these cars are wildly inaccurate, and I never believe milage figures unless they are verified somehow.

The 4-speed in the 240 is a bit wanky compared with other transmission. Gotta baby it, especially from 1-2 gear. No power shifting like in a ricer - that was a lesson I had to learn and I came to MB from a Nissan pickup!!!!

The wagon is VERY practical. For better or worse, your son could get 6-7 of his buddies in there
It is incredibly comfortable on the highway - we use ours as the family car. My wife putts around town in it and loves it for that, and I drive us to visit relatives or on family trips and I love it for that. The amount of cargo space in there is amazing!

the price seems reasonable for each if they are as you describe with minimal rust and working AC.

Good luck. I love both of 'em. I think you can't go wrong with your background and skills!

*EDIT*
I wouldn't hold your breath for the 30mpg on the 300TD.

__________________

Current Mercedes
1979 maple yellow 240D 4-speed

Gone and fondly remembered:
1980 orient red 240D 4-speed

Gone and NOT fondly remembered:
1982 Chna Blue 300TD

Other car in the stable:
2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI / 6-speed MT

The 300 is a 300D sedan. The wagons are cool, but I have 2 volvo wagons now (a.k.a. grocery getters!).

The 300TD is priced a bit high for having that many miles and rust, and it is VERY unlikely that the owner is actually getting 30+ MPG. 28 seems to be the top that you can expect unless you drive very conservatively and have a lot of downhill trips and tail winds Do you mean 300D with a turbo, or 300TD (which is a wagon)?

That is a plus that the timing chain has been replaced though - it is one of the few potential problems that an engine with that mileage would have, may justify the price assuming other things are good and the rust isn't too bad.

I just got a 240D with a 4-speed manual, and as a relatively new manual driver (I have driven stick a little before to learn how and give it a try, but never owned a manual car), I can tell you that it requires more attention to driving, shifting, and traffic than the other manual car I have driven (early 90's toyota). However, if you have got some nice flat parking lots around to learn on, I'd go for it. The price isn't outrageous, considering the mileage and the fact that it has been garaged, also assuming the rust isn't too bad.

If you live in a busy city, the 240d might be a little much to start with, but on the other hand, it could make your kid a more skilled and attentive driver if he starts out on it.

In general both of those prices are ok, but you may be able to find some similar examples for cheaper if you wait around.

With any mercedes diesel, check how easily it starts cold (especially if you live somewhere with real winters), listen to the idle for how smooth it is, generally inspect for rust, ask about oil consumption, look for leaky fluids, check the oil pressure gauge (should be pinning the meter when accelerating and cold idling, and about 2/3 of the way up when warm idling). On automatics, the transmission can sometimes be a little goofy, but it is often just vacuum issues or other non-fatal problems, but look for smooth firm shifting (firm but not neck breaking).

On wagons, check to make sure the rear is not too bouncy or saggy, as it would indicate a problem with the self leveling suspension, which can be a PIA.

I think there are some threads about what to look for when looking at a 300D. Do some searching and reading threads on this forum and you will find a TON of information.

Otherwise, it is just the normal things you look at with a used car.

Good luck!

__________________

and other folks on here will tell it to you as well,

is that there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes.

Trust me.

Make sure of the following when you look at these cars.

1. no green anti-freeze. big run away now sign, or change T-stat and fluid out ASAP with OE MB stuff
2. clean brake fluid. if its brown, turn around - frozen calipers are not far away - they are inexpensive to get rebiulds tho...
3. check under the floor pan carpets. inspect door seals, hood and trunk seals; look for moisture/water - these cars leak like old submarines, at least mine does.
4. check drainage spots, hood, sunroof (if applicable) rear drains in trunk.
5. check out the suspension bushings- if they are dry rotted, which they probably are, determine how much time and money you want to devote to replacing at least the few that are easily do-able.
6. check out the steering damper/idle arm bushings/front suspension very well.
7. even if the engine compartment looks clean, look for leaks near the turbo oil lines and on the side of the block
8. check the transmission fluid color - if it's black, turn back, an obvious sign of a neglected tranny.

Those are some of the ways to filter out the gold from the dirt in these cars. Sometimes you find a gem and if you do, act fast to secure it.

Best of luck!

__________________
1984 300D

Nothing more expensive...that gives me pause. Don't get me wrong, I am not in the poor house here, but I want something practical rather than a love affair...thanks for the comment, and your list of things to check out is very very helpful

It is a statement to take with a grain of salt. If you want the car 100% restored to new condition, then it is true. If you want a daily driver and aren't OCD about your car, a cheap mercedes can remain relatively cheap. Yes, you are likely to have to replace things, but mostly it will be small things. Generally, you will know some things need attention, but you can work on them slowly and they won't leave you stranded in the mean time.

My last 300SD, I bought for $1500, put about $700 into (front end work that I wasn't up to), and sold a year later for $1800 and probably could have gotten more if I wasn't selling in a rush. A loss of $400 over a whole year is not bad considering that our other car was a $130 payment every month, a $800 repair at the end of the year, and depreciates in value by the mile.

__________________

If you want to do the tinkering yourself, there's nothing better than the 240D stick. Not a freeway cruiser, by any stretch. But, tough, simple, reliable, pretty comfy and classy. They are a good deal scarcer than 300Ds in stick form, so if that one is any good, jump on it. Hypothetically?

Rick

__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

Your transmission needs new syncros.


I would go for the 240D manual. Can't beat those cars for economy and reliability. And you will never get a speeding ticket.

A 240 in decent condition will do just fine keeping up on the highway till about 70+.

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

Being that I bought my 300D 5 months ago, I can speak to the recent scariness of buying a car that I didn't now much about.

I had to pay a premium to get my 300D - I found out the hard way that MB diesels in the northern US without rust are very rare (this one came up from North Carolina), so people were all over it. I don't regret paying what I did, but it can get expensive.

If you're like me, and can't stand when something's not perfect, you'll spend a bit of money (see: oil cooler lines, every filter known to man, radiator, thermostat...including housing and cover, ball joints/control arm, front/rear shocks). The good news is that parts are fairly easy to find and are relatively cheap.

EDIT: also front brakes.

I say buy the 300D (my bias).

__________________
1984 300D: 275,000 miles (soon to be for sale)

In search of my 1987 300D in anything but white.

Sounds like you have some good skills, wrench wise, I would go for the 240 because it will be easy for you and your kid to work on. Personely I dont want to work on electric windows, climate control, SLS, automatic trannys OR pay someone else too.... Whats left is mostly within my skill range plus I really enjoy driving a manual. Some wives want an auto tranny and power windows, mine prefers the manual also, maybe I'm lucky

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Much easier to love than a Volvo 240D (gasser), which I've driven or ridden in for about 20 of the years from 76-present. Noticeably, they steer instead of plow. My Benz 240D is very much like the old volvo 144 we used to have- similar size & power. Of course you'll spend time under the hood, which is sensible and accessible, even compared to a volvo. As a mechanical engineer, I dig a car that will run with the battery disconnected (might start that way if your on a hill too!) It seems like an opportunity for father-son connection as well. You'll also appreciate a blower that you can remove without dissassembling the dash too.

Thanks so far!

Not always......our 300D we got in excellent shape mechanically....$1500 with 221k on it. Almost no rust at all. Only have had to replace a few things along the way (nearly 2 years now)....starter...alternator....glow plugs/relay....monovalve repair.....other minor repairs....its been the lowest maintenance of all the cars so far.

We found it on craigslist in Michigan's thumb.... Somewhere east of flint/south of Bay City.....it was in the deep pine forests owned by a weird guy.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)