I am just going to put the trans back in and drive it.

I'll write back once I have my "experimental data".

I went back to your OP and re-read. You must have some problems you are trying to fix, ehhh? Why did you buy the spring kit?

Those spring kits are purchased to fix a finite number of problems. If you don't have those problems, you don't need the spring kit. If you don't have those problems, you don't purchase the kit.

Your approach here is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps you could tell the "Story", that is, if you are looking for help...

Tango had another post here I did not respond to... it was cutting, as usual.

But you are both right.

I am not prepared for this job just yet... I did not know enough about the kit.

I drove the car a handful of times before the tear-down. It is still foreign to me, shifted OK warm... but reverse would buck real bad.

The engine was in bad shape too.. .too many variables here to use this kit effectively.

back to square one.

A good transmission shop will tear down the transmission, measure/check each part, replace/re-shim/re-manufacture to spec. Then the transmission is put on a transmission dyno, ... don't have your trans re-built by a shop without one, tested and adjusted as necessary.

What year/model? When was the last tranny fluid/filter change? How many miles? I've never heard of "bucking" in reverse, not sure what that means. So far it doesn't sound like anything the spring kit would fix.

:nuke:

After doing some reading I wanted to see if anyone has the same symptoms. I have a 87 190D Turbo, 2.5L. The symptom I have is when I engage drive and press the fuel pedal, the can will move 1-2 feet like normal then slip for a split second, then engage drive again. I seems to make no difference if I go to neutral then drive. It will even do it if I slightly power brake it, let the can move forward, then let off the brake. It started not long after I got the car 8 months ago. It would do it when 1st driven in the am. Now it does it almost every time when going from park to drive or rev to drive. I added a can of trans-x a while ago, it helped the 1-2 shift, smoother but it did not change the slip problem. I couple of months ago a new problem appeared. When applying fuel when making a turn it seems to slip the smallest bit, maybe going from 4-3. I changed the fluid and filter 2 weeks ago and nothing changed. Has anyone seen these issues before? Thanks

Will the kit fix low RPM shifts so I can get the full 4500rpm in 1st and 2nd?

I seriously doubt it, the kit mostly modifies part throttle shift points and shift quality. However, there is a factory adjustment for WOT upshift point on the 722.3 diesel transmissions, which you could try fiddling with:

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/transmission/trans_WOT_upshift_RPM.pdf

See item 2.

:stuart:

The governor can be replaced without pulling the rear housing? Like pulling a distributor?

How about increasing tension in the pressure cable?

Sixto
87 300D

No idea on the governor, but you can read the tranny repair docs on my website which detail what is required to remove the governor. I have no idea if it's adjustable or not.

Tension on the control pressure cable (Bowden cable) will only affect part throttle shift points; it's basically overridden by the kickdown solenoid; although both are required for correct operation. If you remove the Bowden cable and attempt a WOT upshift bad things happen... skips from 1st to 3rd (instead of 2nd) at full throttle. Great way to ruin clutch packs...!

:nuke:

ACK! I just realized I had the wrong file uploaded. Try the link again, it will make more sense this time. Sorry about that. I believe you'd want to turn the setscrew the opposite direction to raise shift points; as the TSB is discussing the opposite problem (WOT shift point too high, instead of too low).

:o

big thank you to bob for starting this thread way back when.with help from him and all of the other posters my 82 300td now shifts like it might have when brand new,smooth as my babys bottom!after going through the troubleshooting and adjustment steps i installed the superior shift kit,worked for me.

Thanks for this post. I think it might have saved my transmission.

:beerchug:

Hi,


May I know if the k2 kit from Superior can be fitted on Gasoline model?

Aren't the trannies for Diesel same as Petrol model(ie 722.3 and 722.4)?

I am trying to get k2 and B1 for 722.3 but could not find the Part number.

NPK

Superior sells a spring kit (but not just a a K-2 kit) for the gasoline models. It does not include the items for testing the vacuum control valve, which is a diesel-specific component.

http://www.superior-transmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=20

Bump
 

for customer.

This is the kit we discussed.

I have one of these kits I've been meaning to install. This past week I met up with a fellow Benzhead at his local garage, and indie owned and operated by a zealous fellow who owns and has owned several Benz's and seemed to know and be enthused by the MB Diesel in particular.

When the three of us went out to look at my car I asked my friend to drive it and tell me what he thought of my transmission. He came right back exclaming that it was so far out of adjustment it wasn't even funny. The shop owner said, pop the hood, adjust the detent cable (he chastised us for calling it a Bowden cable) It's missing half it's adjustment threads BTW. We turned mine out (making it tighter) which had no effect, loosening it also had zero effect on the way the transmission performed.

With this the shop owner "got lit up" he was like "dude, I know whats wrong, the end of that cable is broken off inside the trans, that cable isnt pulling anything" When I told him I had the cable and the shift kit he was like "well you need to get it installed before your clutches fry"

Then we discussed the job, for which I thought (wrongly after reading up here) could be done with out taking the valve body out of the trans. He told me "you want to take it out to change all the springs, clean it out and drill out the holes. I was like "what holes" he says "there are two holes in the valve body that you drill out, increase the pressure, get better shifts.....it's in the superior kit instructions"

Well I opened up my Superior kit today, there are a couple of holes circled but nothing that says anything about drilling them out. I couldnt find any mention of this on the boards. As much as this guy sounded like he knew what to do with a trans this age, I still wanted to get some feedback from the group here.

He also recommended running Dex 5, said "it will run cooler, smoother"

Is this the "start in first gear" valve body mod I've heard rumors about or am I about to get my trans hacked up?

I've got an appointment at his shop this Tuesday so if you've got any experience or knowledge with respect to drilling out valve body please share your thoughts.

1) Are you talking about the tranny in your 1982 300SD?

2) No clue what the guy is talking about with drilling holes.

3) No, this is not the "1st gear start" mod you've heard about, and your 300SD should already start in 1st gear. The 2nd gear start trannies didn't arrive until the later 1980's and only on gasoline models, not diesels.

4) There is no Dex 5. There is Dexron-III (3), and Dexron-VI (6). Dex-VI is a thinner viscosity fluid designed for newer transmissions, for fuel economy reasons. They claim it's backwards-compatible and will work in Dex-II/III applications, but that's more of a technicality. Yeah, it will "work", but not necessarily properly. I tried the stuff (only once!) and got flaring upshifts, had to tweak the vacuum modulator firmer to eliminate the flaring with Dex-VI in the pan. I'm currently using Red Line D4 or High Temp now in all my cars, which is Dexron-III viscosity.


:batman:

actually, the SD does not start in 1st gear... it SHIFTS to 1st gear when you step on the throttle, and if his bowden cable is broken, he's starting in 2nd.
(tangofox, and Brian Carlton pointed this out to me)

also, I added this thread to the sticky list at the top of the page!

Yes my 1982 300SD, he was talking about holes to increase the fluid flow and pressure, which ones specifically I'm not sure, maybe he was referring to VI, I saw something labeled V in the parts store today, not sure if it was DEX, maybe not

What a great thread. Thanks everyone who contibuted. Hopefully i can add something I'm struggling with my valve body on my 1992 722.4 that just got a rebuilt tranny. The builder said he cleaned valve body but he didnt open side ports for k1 , k2 and accumulator valves and check all those . We think we have a stuck accumulator valve. The problem is the car shifts to 4th by 20 mph no matter how Bowden is adjusted.

I ordered the shift kit. Question: why does the kit only go to 1990 and has anyone used it on a later 1991 + transmission?

Thanks.

not sure but you can call them. Also Roy might have valuable input on this question

Yeah i called Cobra transmissions and another place. They both said for 1992 it wasn't available. But neither knew details why. I'm guessing it is probably some obscure, barely documented, small change in the valve body that didn't get published to the aftermarket or didn't trickle down yet.

My transmission guy is trying to get a valve body for me.

But for future reference, has anyone gotten the superior shift kit to fix my problem -- shifts through all the gears really fast by 20 mph no matter what?

I've got a 722.3 on my 87 wagon that i'm going to try to fix same problem in with the superior shift kit.

Just curious, have you verified that the Bowden cable is working properly? With the trans pan removed, have someone pull on the throttle linkage, and you should be able to see the plunger move in & out on the valve body.

I've read about a strainer inside the valve body somewhere that can get plugged up, but I can't recall if it will help with this particular issue.


:boat:

That is factually incorrect.

Care to explain, along with citing years/models that conflict with my previous statement?

:stuart:

I'm trying to do the tv pressure control spring -- steps 9 and 10. These are behind the plunger the Bowden lever operates right ? On the upper half. How do you get this apart? I'll post pic. Thanks.

You have to remove the retainer plate on the rear of the upper valve body. Doing so will also free several spring-loaded valves, so use caution.

Bump
 

for customer


***************************************************************

I have been unable to document exactly which 722 transmissions this fits.

This may help sort out what you need, Use Page Translation = it is in Russian.
http://www.oldmerin.net/board/lofiversion/index.php/t132382.html

K1 - spring kit 1262704477
K1 - piston 1262700335
K2 - part number on the tube is 1262778432, however the kit part number is 126 270 04 35
K2 - piston 1262700435
K2 - piston 1262700535
B1 - piston 1262700235
B1 - piston 1242700035

***************************************************

Update on my attempt at spring kit: I tried to follow the instructions. As i understood them you could replace the whole K1 and K2 spring trains with 1 big spring each. I did that. I gave up on getting the tv pressure control spring out . I took off the plate but couldn't get it to budge. Then i put it back in car and backed out and the car wouldn't go forward. Reved up, it tried to go and would move a little but it felt real bad. So i stopped and called my tranny guy. He said don't drive it.

So i got a valve body from him put it in . Backed up and then it wouldn't go eaither. But at this point i was like somethings got to give and thought maybe the valve body hadn't filled up with fluid . So i revved it a few minutes and gradually it started to move and has been working great ever sense. It solved my problem.

its possible i did'nt mess up the spring kit install and just didn't give the valve body time to fill up with fluid.

Am i right that you can just replace the spring kits in K1 and K2 with the the correct big spring in the Superior kit? Or did i misread the instructions?

There is no need to rev the car to "fill" the valve body. Something else was going on there, but I don't know what. Maybe the fluid level was too low or something.

Yes, K1 / K2 entire train is replaced with the appropriate big/long spring from Superior, and yes, the instructions are really poor.

:balloon2:

Recycled
 

for new members.


.

Late update:

My 1987 300D had a stacked (way too early) 3-4 shift... it would essentially skip 3rd gear at part throttle. So, I bought the Superior kit in June 2009, and it sat on my shelf collecting dust for a full 5 years. Yikes.

Anyway, I finally installed the stacked-shift correction spring for the 3-4 shift in early June (2014). The instructions fail to mention that you need to drop the valve body to replace this spring. What a pain! And a royal mess, too. All for one tiny little spring. The good news is, the stacked shift issue is much improved. The issue is still present at light throttle... but at medium throttle, it will now stay in 3rd gear for a reasonable amount of time. I swapped the spring just prior to a fluid change, I wanted to make sure it was working before I poured in ~$100 of fresh Red Line D4. After testing with the old fluid, I did the fluid & filter change, everything has been ok since. I did not replace any other springs, the other shifts were all (relatively) ok, considering the trans has 325kmi and has never been rebuilt.

Tip Of The Day: If you leave the trans pan below the tranny to catch the dripping fluid while R&R'ing the valve body... make sure you drain the pan before attempting to re-install it. Otherwise, you will get a very nice, very red, ATF bath. Don't ask how I know. For the record, I learned this a year or two ago during a different VB removal... managed to avoid multi-quart ATF puddles this time.


:zorro:

my turn!
 

I have read through this thread and have gained understanding and then have become totally confused and then gained understanding again. I just want to be sure that I have understood what I think I have understood. Here goes:

Am I correct in assuming that the one red spring will replace the entire 2 spring train for my k2 accumulator so I can firm up a very soft and flaring 3-4 shift? All I need to do is put the red spring in without any of the plastic parts or other springs?

The instructions that came with this kit are nearly worthless. Nearly. My phone will not allow me to upload any pics either. What a day! Thanks for your patience and advice.

To me the shift kit is just a bandaid until the rest of the trans goes. It is a good bandaid however if you don't feel like R&Ring the transmission at the time. By all means, not a long term fix.

@325K nobody should be complaining about much though. Seen an exception of a 300E hit about 414K before the trans went.

ok
 

Still scratching my head here.

Hello MB people! My name is Lou. I purchase a 1995 E320 Cabrio last year with 56K miles on the ODO. But the reverse was lazy both hot or cold start so I figured and oil change was in order. Few months later, I did a transmission pan drop filter oil change with DEXRON 6 fluid. Car was shifting 1-2-3-4 gears great before the service, how ever, a few weeks after the oil change, the reverse takes much longer than before to engage, but only when cold start. After engine goes to normal operating temps, engages fine.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Lou.

Lou, this sounds like the classic problem with the reverse clutches going out. If the delay is only 2-4 seconds, you can probably live with it for a while. If it's more like 6-10 seconds, you are on seriously borrowed time. If the other shifts are ok, you can usually fix this by pulling the trans and replacing the clutches behind the primary pump, but it's quite a lot of work. There's a detailed thread on the MBWorld forum. A shift kit won't fix this problem, btw.

The thinner Dexron 6 fluid probably isn't helping, but switching back to the original-spec Dexron III fluid likely isn't going to be a magic cure either. Strange that the Dex-6 fluid seemed to make the problem worse.

:blink:

My (good) experience with the Superior Shift Kit (W123 300TD))
 

I got my '81 W123 300TD back from a vacuum rebuild and a big bad 2-3 FLARE. At least the 1-2 clunk was gone though. After reading a bunch of great stuff here, I decided to try the Superior Shift Kit. Here's how it went for me.

Although a lot you have done this work with the valve body in place, not being at all familiar with this part of the car, I decided to remove mine and work on the bench instead (as the instructions say). Unfortunately, I put my car up on ramps (which are just barely high enough) and drained the transmission before I figured out that I should have put it up higher than that.

Pulling the valve body was easy enough just tedious with the 15 bolts to remove. As long as I had it off, I decided to separate the halves to do the springs that you can't get to without. Separating the 2 halves of the valve body was scary as but it came apart without any tiny balls or valves flying off.

I did steps:

2. the K1 and K2 accumulator control valve springs
3. the end springs in the K1 and K2 accumulators
4. (didn't do this one but wish I had replacing the spring train with the single spring)
7. Replaced the B1 accumulator spring train with a single spring
9. Replaced the TV pressure control valve spring - This one is on the upper body and you get to it by removing the plastic bush which is an interference fit on the big plunger
10. Replaced the spring in the rattling capsule

I managed to put it all back together without losing anything or messing anything up with the help of this video: https://youtu.be/h9thWDLR5yo

That is a great video!

Result? 1-2 is amazingly smooth, 2-3 is a little slow to complete, 3-4 smooth as silk.

PS: I found a link to the service manual that listed 8nm torque values for the valve body and transmission pan bolts and 14nm for the drain plug.

Dear Benz drivers,


sorry for jumping in here but I have a question regarding the shift kit.
Just received it this week (shipped from the US to Germany) and want to install K1 and K2 accumulator upgrades within next week.


Vehicle: Euro 300 D OM603 with 110 hp and 722.415 transmission





I want to go for step 3 of the instructions only.
For the K1 it's quite clear - just replace the end spring of the original K1 by one of the two small blue springs. I have already installed the reinforced K1 option from MB so I will add the blue spring to this one.


The main question is:
My 2-3 shift is really nice, firm (not hard) in all throttle positions.
The 3-4 to shift is quite hard. If I adjust the VCV completely counterclockwise direction, I can get "okay shifts" from 3 to 4 (could be better), but then with light throttle I have again the rpm increase at 2-3 due to worn clutch pack. At more throttle it is fine again.
Furthermore with various VCV and modulator adjustments I can get acceptable 3 to 4 shift under light throttle and also acceptable 2 to 3 shift but then under full throttle 3 to 4 engages hard first and then it takes one or two seconds to fully reduce rpm to higher gear (I think you call this flaring). So in general: Both shifts are completely unbalanced and I have already spent hours and hours to get an acceptable setup but it won't work.
Vacuum system and VCV are checked and various hoses replaced - no issues on that side.


So my plan is:
Add the blue end spring of the superior kit to the reinforced factory K1 accumulator, hoping for a better pre-load in order to avoid slipping from 2 to 3 at slight throttle so I can increase vacuum in order to have good 3 to 4 shifts at light or medium throttle (Currently they are hard/harsh).


In addition to that I also want to replace the original K2 spring (I have the 2-spring version) by the superior kit spring that is described in step 3 of the kit.
I am hoping to reduce harshness on the 3 to 4 shift and flaring at full throttle when I reduced the vacuum.


Hope this will work. I was also very suprised that the reinforced K1 kit not only reduced/eliminated 2 to 3 slipping but also made the shifting smoother (no harsh kick that I had sometimes before). This experience makes me hoping for the same result with the 3 to 4 shift with the stronger spring.
Then even if I only try to adjust 3 to 4 shift with vacuum only without considering 2 to 3 performance, I get hard shifts at low/medium throttle or "acceptable" (not satisfactory) shifts at low/medium throttle but flaring at full throttle - this is a mess.




However, here is my question:
The Kit instructions states that you should replace original K2 springs by the single red spring in the kit. But I have two red springs in the Kit.
One in dark red/rust with thicker material but less coils and one bright red (orange) spring with thinner material but more coils.
Which is the correct one for the K2 step 3? The Kit only describes one red spring, not any orange, bright or dark red spring.


Please see the following photo:
Top: Original K2 accumulator with springs
middle: dark red "thick" spring
bottom: bright red "thin" spring

https://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/9...610727095.jpeg


I am tending to the thin spring because it can be compressed by the fingers but definetly has more pressure than the original spring. Could be good for more "precise" shifting results!?!

The thick spring is really stiff. Compressing with the fingers is nearly impossible and in comparison to the original spring it seems to be whole lot too stiff.


Can you help me with this issue?


Thank you very much in advance for your patience and sorry for the long text which my contain various spelling mistakes...


Greetings from Germany :)



Tobias

Tobias,

Remember that the VCV adjustment (on the side of the IP) is not really "adjustable". It should be set via factory procedure and left alone. Adjustments to shift firmness should be done at the modulator on the transmission.

Yes, you can firm up the 2-3 upshift with K1 using different/stiffer springs, mix & match as needed from the Superior kit. You may want to get the 2-3/K1 shift as firm as possible to help even up the difference vs 3-4/K2.

I am not sure about the K2 spring question. The Superior colors are not easy to translate and their documentation doesn't provide alternate means of identification. You could contact Superior directly and ask.

Dear Dave,

thanks for the input. In general I agree with you. But if you have some gearbox problems due to wear you can "play" with the VCV in order to adjust transmission behaviour.

In fact, if I adjust the VCV factory spec, I get way to hard 3 to 4 shifts and flaring at full throttle (due vacuum modulator pressure). If I increase vacuum at VCV, I can get the same hard 3 to 4 shifts at low/medium but nearly good shifts at full throttle.

It is really a mess that will not end until shift kit installation or better, transmission rebuild...

The VCV is essentially a throttle position signal. In general, if the VCV requires adjustment away from the factory setting, the engine output may not be normal (either above OR below normal power levels). This is particularly important for turbo engines producing less than rated power, which can cause all kinds of shifting problems that have nothing to do with the transmission. Wouldn't hurt to verify your non-turbo is getting 0-100kph close to factory specs, just in case.

Anyway - as a starting point, VCV should be in factory position, vacuum modulator adjusted to provide zero flare at WOT upshifts, then adjust part-throttle shifts via valvebody springs along with minor adjustments to the modulator. I would only mess with the VCV as a last resort.

YMMV, etc.

Thank you - I will try it this way.
Grateful to have a vacuum gauge since few weeks.

The engine has now power issues. It reaches 100 kph within factory specs and also achieves top speed of 190 kph (Yes- we can do that in Germany :-) ).

If nobody can help me with the spring issue during the weekend I will contact the superior kit manufacturer and ask them for clarification.
Of course I will share the result here later on.

The VCV on cars with these engines is definitely a "Set it to factory spec, then LEAVE IT ALONE" type thing. If the shifting is still wrong, check that the bowden cable isn't too tight and then focus on adjusting the modulator. My experience has been that the throttle linkage and bowden cable being out of adjustment is a large portion of shifting problems.

Hi!
I followed the instructions on youtube as well as from the Superior Shift manual, and pulled the trigger yesterday on my 722.361.

I installed no: 3 (blue end on K1 and single red on K2), 6 (plain finish), 7, 8, 9, + separate bag for stacked 2-3 and 3-4.

Cleaned up everything and filled up with ATF.

Now, it has extremely long 1st gear, then shifts hard to 2nd and doesn't shift higher, even manually.

I'll be taking out those "stacked shifts" springs, K1 and K2 springs, because I didn't really need them, just had early 2-3 sometimes and main reason was harsh 1-2. Hopefully that'll fix it!

If you have any advice, please write. Pressures, bowden and vacuum are perfect.

Besides, I'm not sure about my "accumulator switching on control valve". It is really weird. Looks like version "B" on the attached ATSG picture, but the plastic star plunger has a tiny spring and I swear it came out located the other way. It cannot be placed the other way, so I put it back as pictured. However, the metal piston with hole below (right above gate) had a circular "shade" in the center of the smooth side, so I oriented it the smooth side towards the red plastic star plunger. It seems like that was a mistake.

Update: reoriented the metal piston element (thanks Squiggle Dog for photos!), removed all superior parts except 1-2 shift aaaand it's working again. 1-2 is a bit smoother at partial throttle. Was worth it.