you guys are right! it was off now here is where it gets tricky each time i set the crank shaft to 24 degrees btdc and then set the pump to begin of delivery and put it in and attach drip tube then swivel pump until fuel gets reduced to 1 drop per second while having ip lever to full and do every thing and start the car the thing is hard to start smoking and has a very hard force of smoke coming out (like a low rider sound) to keep the engine running we would have to rev it high and if you try to put it on the first and drive the car stalls and even it you plug the alternator on idle now on the crank shaft pulley markings there is a point saying 0T i tried setting the cam shaft at tdc with that in position then when started it just made a whirring sound like no compression strokes now 180 degrees passed the 0T point when started should it start if the pump is set correctly it was originally a little passed that mark when camshaft is at tdc my question is now i have set the cam shaft 180 degrees passed the 0T mark will it start if i tow start it thanks i had the cam shaft cover out to do this (we towed the car home yesterday )

It is very difficult to help you like this; your writing is impeding the diagnostic process.

Write one sentence at a time and finish it with a period.

Seperate each issue.

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ok its not easy walking in the dark to town at night becouse all day i am working on the car and then hurrying home sorry about the previous post

just forget that existed the problem now is camshaft and crankshaft timing i know its hard for you guys when you'd rather be off doing something better just bear with this for a sec you've all been very patient today i set the crank shaft like this :

1) on the crankshaft pulley the marking the is a point saying 0T i first set the crank shaft at that point and camshaft at the 0T point, then it seemed like there was no compression when we started just a whirring sound like the pistons was just moving and not compressing the diesel

2) then 180 degrees or so passed the 0T mark on the pulley there was a mark it does not say anything just a line i asumed after failing last time with the pully at 0T i woulsd set it at this mark and set the camshaft at tdc mark
so crank shaft at the mark with no letters or numbers just a line (180 degrees or so passed the 0T mark) and cam shaft at tdc mark, now it started but on push start that too with a great difficulty it was smoking too and had low torque if you let go of the accelerator the car would stall so holding the accelerator we got home in the car and the car has insufficient torque to run on the 3rd gear what do i do

i hope tis is more clear so the issue here is the cam and crankshaft timing the injector pump is set ok and i know how to set it now (no doubts) :-) this is how tings are :

1) If you removed the camshaft, you must first get the camshaft timed with respect to the crankshaft. The crankshaft must be set to zero degrees and the mark on the camshaft washer must be inline with the mark on the tower. Remember that the crankshaft goes around twice for each turn of the camshaft, so, your alignment only occurs once every two revolutions. When you get the alignment, the cam lobes on #1 will be generally upward and will not be opening the valves.

2) After the cam is timed, the new question is the IP timing. That's a completely different game. Take a look at this thread on how to do it:


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=238240

ps i don't have off set woodruff keys or dial gage what ever here thanks

any other way? i could skip a couple of teeth probably

Shouldn't injection START at 24 BTDC?

I believe he is refering to the Fuel Stopping when using the Drip Tube.

When you are using the drip tube you want the fuel to almost stop dripping. So the fuel essentialy stops dripping from the drip tube at Begin of Injection. That is what he was refering to. When you are using the Drip Tube you are trying to get the point where the low pressure Fuel flow comming from the Fuel Supply Pump is being cut off by the rising plunger. The Fuel that is trapped inside by the rising plunger closing the low pressure feed port on the side of the Barrel is what goes to the Injectors.
So at the same time the low pressure feed port closes you have Begin Injection.

Of course you are not wrong; when the drip tube is removed and the parts replaced and the hard lines are connected the fuel is moving to the Injectors at Begin Injection should begin at 24 degrees if the IP is adjusted right.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Gottcha, I did not know this recipe. I was thinking of a ken bergsma recipe, by which you remove the #1 hard line, and wick fuel out of the socket for that line. Advance the engine slowly until you see fuel welling in the socket, this is where injection starts. Adjust accordingly.

the problem right noq is the smoke and torque
i dont know weather the crankshaft must be set at 0T or the mark with no letters or numbers

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming



what don't you understand about this article? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Summarize what you have done in response to each step described.

Seperate your thoughts and actions with a period or by starting a new line.

understand the difference between the CRANKshaft and the CAMshaft.

Use pictures to help us understand what you are talking about

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the issue is not injector pump timing it is cam shaft timing fine, how do i set the cam and crank timing?

this is what i did set camshaft at tdc notch and set crankshaft at 0T
but when i start it makes a strange whiiring sound not the regular cranking sound

there is no way to 'time' these two items. Is there any way for them to have slipped on the chain or skipped a tooth?

do you know how to check chain stretch?

if you can set the camshaft notch to the mark on the tower that holds it in place at the same time that crankshaft balancer reads between 0* - 10* then there is probably nothing wrong with them. That is just your chain stretch.

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and, have you had the car running yet? Is it 'whirring' while running, or while starting?

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I kinda half read all the replies you have recieved, and I take it your still having a problem. I'm seeing allot of things changing but here goes.

First, I'm assuming you either have the valve cover off, or you have at least looked into the oil cap to make sure your two front lobes on the cam are pointing reasonably upwards when your crankshaft marker is on tdc. At tdc on the crank marker, the little line should be lined up on the camshaft and the tower. This is important because your camshaft turns once for every two revolutions of the crank. IF you are not at that location on the camshaft, then you will be 180* off. Make sure you are correct with the camshaft and crankshaft timing marks.
Look at your pump, find the hash mark on the pump and the shaft of the pump. If your collar is comming off with the pump, slip it off so you have a bare shaft to see that mark more clearly. Carefully slip the pump on the engine getting is as close to the center of the oblonged holes in the flange as you can. Tighten it down and do not even bother with the drip tube at this point. You will be close enough to see if it will start. It can be a few degrees out and still start and run.

Also.. I'm not sure what got you stared on removing the pump in the first place,, maybe I need to read more lol, but if you were experiencing hard starting etc, there are other things on these older engines that need attention. Valve clearance adjustment is crucial! They LOOSE clearance as the engine ages, causing valves to not close properly and that reduces compression, power.. u get the idea. I'm not 100% sure of the correct clearance cold, but 15 thousanths of an inch is a good place to start. Your book should have the correct information in it.

Check your glowplugs. Do you have the old style with the squiggly resistor wired between them.. or do they all just have a jumper from plug to plug *new version*? You can preglow a little longer then normal to make sure they are good and hot. Also, make sure your battery is fully charged. If your car has a block heater.. plug it in for an hour or so. Lets give the old girl a fighting chance lol. Heat is a diesel's friend. before preglowing.. crack the nuts loose on the injector lines at the injectors. Crank engine for 30 second intervals.. giving the starter a chance to cool down between cranks. Make sure you have fuel to EACH injector. Tighten your nuts up, and try to start it. It should start without having to press accelerator to floor etc. You may be loading the cylinders up with too much fuel and causing your excessive smoke that way. Where are you located? If your anywhere near north Jersey, pm me and I'll try to walk you through it or help you get it going.

Rick

when starting anyway my balance plate (harmonic balancer) was on the wrong way 180 degrees advanced 180 degrees the wrong way thats why when i set the camshaft on tdc and set the crank pulley on OT it makes a whirring sound dowel pins are not available i might have to get two cut (lath machine)