can I get any info on this car? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dka-66 · #1 11-22-2008, 05:01 PM

I know I can't get specifics but would like to know general info on this car http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/927310571.html

Is it worth going to look at? If I do decide to look at it what specific things should I check on that are known issues with this car? Last thing, I grew up in a W123 300 Turbo Diesels but my step dad always had the shop work on it (not that I ever remember much going wrong), but I would like to know how the non-turbo 300's are as far as dependable they are and what they are like to drive?

Jeremy5848 · #2 11-22-2008, 07:54 PM

The engine and drivetrain should be as reliable as the later models through the end of the W123 model (1985). Fuel economy should be about the same as turbo models (mid-20s, YMMV) but the NA 300D has only about 85 HP compared to 125 for the turbo. Don't expect a lot of passing or hill-climbing ability. It will be a bit buzzy at highway speeds since the I-5 is not as smooth an engine as an I-6 but it should cruise easily at 65 or so and on the flat will feel very much like the turbodiesels you grew up in, you lucky dog. (I had never seen a Mercedes until I went away to college.)

That Houston car will have the dreaded "servo" controller for the a/c; there are modern electronic versions of the servo controller but they are about $500 plus installation. Additionally, you should assume that the a/c needs more than a recharge. Estimate at least $1000 minimum for whatever unknown problems are there. "Needs to be charged" is the seller's way of covering up serious problems; if that is really all it needs, why didn't they take care of it and so sell the car for more $$$ with good working a/c? Especially in Texas, which occasionally gets warm.

I am not aware of any other significant differences between 1980 and the later cars.

Jeremy

dka-66 · #3 11-22-2008, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the info above, I am hoping the car looks as nice as what the pics show (they are not great pics but it def does not look like a rust bucket or dented all over)

I think he might have added to the original post because now he added that it has 185,000 miles on it (hope the tranny has been worked on) and has 4,500 dollars or reciepts. Well it looks like I am going to look at it Monday and maybe head over to a shop here in Houston (MPH) to see if he can check it out quick. I also have my compression tester, maybe I should bring it with me and check the compression (what do you thing?).

The fuel cut off he was mentioning, he emailed me back and said that if you let it run 10 minutes it shut off fine but if you run it a few minutes to the corner to get some fuel you will have to manually shut it down.

Last thing fow now, I know this is going to be a bit slower but does it at least have the testicular fortitude to get going from a red light or stop sign without having everyone throw you the finger? I have to say that not having turbo might be nice since it is one less thing to worry about.

thanks for the help on this

JimmyL · #4 11-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Look, a normally aspirated 5 cylinder has plenty of power for anything you want to do. Nothing other than the rogue "T" gets under my skin lately like all the crapola spewed about the power and speed capabilities of non-turbo Mercedes, be it a 240 or a 300D.
An NA 300D can easily cruise between 70-80 and has the ability to go even higher although they tend to get kinda loud at that speed. You can accelerate, you can merge and you can pass.
Most folks have never even owned or driven this type of car that they are giving opinions of.......

Looks clean and the price ain't bad. Seller is kind of a jackarse with his auction wording towards the end, though......

daw_two · #5 11-23-2008, 12:06 AM

JIMMY!!!

Please damper your words about the seller's use of the word "auction".

Everyone knows those auction only get better numbers if the car is an 11 out of 10.

I had a 300D Euro (non turbo) last summer for a few months and that thing got and went!!! It didn't burn the rubber from 1st into 2nd like Candy would, but it sure could outrun Elegent Madame.

rcounts · #6 11-23-2008, 12:14 AM

I drove an NA 300CD before buying my turbo. I have to agree with Jimmy. It had plenty of pep and get up and go. Not quite as much as the turbo, but the NA versions are the REAL high mileage champs. The engine is so much less stressed that they run forever. You'll only miss the "extra" 40 HP of the turbo if you drive a turbo and an NA back-to-back. The turbo only shaves about 4 seconds off the 0-60 times (15 for the turbo vs 19 for the NA). If its in as good of shape as it looks, $1400 seems pretty reasonable IMO...

Gene Horr · #7 11-23-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dka-66

Is it worth going to look at?

Well, let's do the Craigslist translater:

> BASICALLY HAS JUST SAT THE PAST FEW YEARS.

"It had so many things wrong with it that I didn't bother fixing it. Meanwhile it has done nothering but deteriorate. As I don't drive it every day I have no idea what all is wrong with it."

> CAR ONLY NEEDS MINOR TLC SUCH AS A/C RECHARGED,

"The A/C doesn't work. If it was only a recharge I would have spent the $50 to do it. Who knows what is wrong with it."

> A SPRING ON LEFT MIRROR,

" The left mirror is not working and I have no idea what is wrong with it. If it was only a $1 spring I would have fixed it."

> A WINDOW SWITCH,

"All of the switches are bad and possibly the window motors too."

> AND IT WILL NEED A FUEL CUT OFF SWITCH[TYPICAL BENZY].

"The vacuum system is completely screwed up and probably everything needs to be replaced."

> IF NOT SOLD SOON ILL TAKE IT TO AUTORAMA AUCTION NEXT WEEKEND ALONG WITH SOME OTHER CLASSIC CARS ILL BE TAKING AND THERE AND I BET ILL AT LEAST GET 2 GRAND FOR IT THERE.

"I'll be lucky to get $500 for it so PLEASE come by and pay me more."

Assuming the engine and transmission are in good shape it probably is worth $1500. But just keep in mind that you are probably going to have to put $2-4k into it right away and should have $3k set aside for a new transmission soon. But this is really no different than any other $1500 MB.

I'll be up in Houston during the holidays if you want someone to tag along to look at it. I'll make you buy me a burger and a beer, though .

TylerH860 · #8 11-23-2008, 03:32 AM

I HATE PEOPLE THAT KEEP THE CAPS LOCK ON. It gets under my skin like Jimmy's rouge T.

TylerH860 · #9 11-23-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

Well, let's do the Craigslist translater:

> BASICALLY HAS JUST SAT THE PAST FEW YEARS.

"It had so many things wrong with it that I didn't bother fixing it. Meanwhile it has done nothering but deteriorate. As I don't drive it every day I have no idea what all is wrong with it."

> CAR ONLY NEEDS MINOR TLC SUCH AS A/C RECHARGED,

"The A/C doesn't work. If it was only a recharge I would have spent the $50 to do it. Who knows what is wrong with it."

> A SPRING ON LEFT MIRROR,

" The left mirror is not working and I have no idea what is wrong with it. If it was only a $1 spring I would have fixed it."

> A WINDOW SWITCH,

"All of the switches are bad and possibly the window motors too."

> AND IT WILL NEED A FUEL CUT OFF SWITCH[TYPICAL BENZY].

"The vacuum system is completely screwed up and probably everything needs to be replaced."

> IF NOT SOLD SOON ILL TAKE IT TO AUTORAMA AUCTION NEXT WEEKEND ALONG WITH SOME OTHER CLASSIC CARS ILL BE TAKING AND THERE AND I BET ILL AT LEAST GET 2 GRAND FOR IT THERE.

"I'll be lucky to get $500 for it so PLEASE come by and pay me more."

Assuming the engine and transmission are in good shape it probably is worth $1500. But just keep in mind that you are probably going to have to put $2-4k into it right away and should have $3k set aside for a new transmission soon. But this is really no different than any other $1500 MB.

I'll be up in Houston during the holidays if you want someone to tag along to look at it. I'll make you buy me a burger and a beer, though .

I agreed with you up until the point I bolded. The AC issue will probably be costly, but everything else only costs alot of time, especially if you use good used parts. Why is the transmission going out soon, and costs 3k to replace? Its fairly common for these transmissions to outlive engines, and I don't think its near that expensive if it happens.

Mechanical issues are manageable; what is really important is the condition of the body and interior, since a decent repaint costs at least 3k.

If he doesn't take less than $1,000 for it, be sure to ask him what day he's going to Autorama.

dka-66 · #10 11-23-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcounts

I drove an NA 300CD before buying my turbo. I have to agree with Jimmy. It had plenty of pep and get up and go. Not quite as much as the turbo, but the NA versions are the REAL high mileage champs. The engine is so much less stressed that they run forever. You'll only miss the "extra" 40 HP of the turbo if you drive a turbo and an NA back-to-back. The turbo only shaves about 4 seconds off the 0-60 times (15 for the turbo vs 19 for the NA). If its in as good of shape as it looks, $1400 seems pretty reasonable IMO...

I laughed when I saw this, I was joking with my wife that it probably had 0-60 times of a 57 Chevy.

As far as the other stuff you guys mentioned, I think it is what I was hoping for, except Gene with the $3k for a tranny soon and $2 to $4k out of the hole but then again you have to be expecting anything with a car this old, I can only hope that the receipts that they have saved are from a reputable shop and have the major maintenance covered.

I am not expecting (or need a rocket), I was really hoping for an older non-turbo (hoping that non-turbo meant less headaches down the road) that I can put some work into and let my wife drive until I get done with the 89 300TE, and when I am done with her car then I can take the diesel for myself (I'm so thoughtful

)

Gene, when will you be down here, even if we don't check out the car and you want to check out the Autorama I'll still pick up the burger and beer. I talked to my neighbor about the show yesterday (I thought it was all Chip Foose show car type stuff) but he said they had a lot of typical car guys with their stuff also (his Mustang won 5 years in a row) and they also have a swap meet outside. Let me know if you (or any other Houston guys) want to meet up.

Thanks for the help

Oh, what's the rogue "T" ?????

ImBroke · #11 11-23-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dka-66

Oh, what's the rogue "T" ?????

Let's not go there.. lol

It looks solid to me, and I agree with a lot of what's been said. My trans has 280k on it, and doesn't seem to be wanting to fail any time soon. Evil servo, true dat. I especially agree that the guy is being an arse about selling it though. Threats do not do anything for me. I would take Tyler's advice and ask when he's going to the auction, as the car will not bring close to 2k.

daw_two · #12 11-23-2008, 10:07 AM

[quote=TylerH860;2028883Why is the transmission going out soon, and costs 3k to replace? Its fairly common for these transmissions to outlive engines, and I don't think its near that expensive if it happens.

Mechanical issues are manageable; what is really important is the condition of the body and interior, since a decent repaint costs at least 3k.

If he doesn't take less than $1,000 for it, be sure to ask him what day he's going to Autorama.

[/quote]

x2 --- what Tyler said; especially the Autorama part!!!

Bama1 · #13 11-23-2008, 10:43 AM

For less than 1500 bucks, it appears to be a manageable project that will be fairly cheap to get back into everyday useable shape.

The engine cut-off problem can likely be fixed in an afternoon with a Mity-vac($40) and 15$ in vacuum tubing, connectors and your own patient elbow grease. Sounds like the Vac pump is okay but it could also need to be replaced shortly after so don't be too surprised. (Budget $165 Max)
The AC could be minor or not and even the experts won't declare until the system is actually tested. (But you've got til next May to solve that before it is an issue) Budget $49 -to around $700 and you'll be close.
The window switch probably only needs power and will likely respond well to cleaning the Fuseholder contacts. If it is a switch-30 bucks on ebay-less or at the pick and pull. Same if it is the window motor...

All in all, if it runs and is in the shape the pictures show, the price is not bad.
A lower price "cash on the barrel-head" deal would be better since you will need to do some unexpected repairs and the initial servicing such as- fuel and oil filters, fluid changes(oil, brake, transmission, differential, coolant(flush and Recharge)brake fluid replacement).

Dont forget to Inspect the driveshaft flex disc for fraying/cracking...

good luck

Gene Horr · #14 11-23-2008, 12:54 PM

> The AC issue will probably be costly, but everything else only costs alot of time, especially if you use good used parts.

I should have said that the prices I'm giving are assuming that you have a shop do the work. For about 1/3 - 1/2 of all of the maintenance costs you can save about 33% by doing it yourself. But there are several of the high dollar items (transmssion rebuilds and repainting) that probably 95% of the owners wouldn't have a clue about how to do.

About the only thing that I would every put a used part on are interior items and non-safety related accessories. In the long run (I am talking about keeping the car for decades/forever here) I haven't seen it save any money and it really doesn't save any time. This is assuming that the car is to be driven and you want to maximize dependability.

> Why is the transmission going out soon, and costs 3k to replace? Its fairly common for these transmissions to outlive engines, and I don't think its near that expensive if it happens.

I looked at four W123's/W126's that had over 200k miles. All four had either had a transmission rebuild already or was needing one. From what I've read on the various lists a rebuild before 200k miles is common. If it is truly common for a transmission to last over 400k miles this is news to me. I've never even heard hints of that before.

I priced rebuilds and the reputable shops were all around $3k and up. A quality rebuild for a domestic is over $2k. I find it hard to believe that a MB is any cheaper and the rebuild kits alone were about $500 more IIRC. $3k sounds about right in line.

Gene Horr · #15 11-23-2008, 02:11 PM

> As far as the other stuff you guys mentioned, I think it is what I was hoping for, except Gene with the $3k for a tranny soon and $2 to $4k out of the hole

. Hey, it may not need it. Just don't be surprised if it does. And there are lot of things that you can live with for some time as long as you don't mind a more expensive repair later or a poor ride for now. But if you have that amount set aside you can be reasonably sure of being able to get it in very good condition no matter what the problem as long as the engine has not been damaged.

There's a lot of things that you may not notice at first. Problems that pop up only when hot. Or after driving on the freeway for 1/2 an hour. Or after a rain. Or ....

> I was really hoping for an older non-turbo (hoping that non-turbo meant less headaches down the road)

From what I've read the turbo's problems are minor. ALDA and vacuum issues for the most part and these seem easy and cheap to fix. As long as the oil supply doesn't fail the turbo seems to last a long time - maybe replace one every 30 years or so - as long as you take care of it. Like any turbo you don't want to pull off of the freeway and then immediately kill the engine. Let it cool down for a few minutes first.

Personally I chose to get a turbo. But I would not have turned down a non-turbo. The ones I drove seemed comparable in speed in city driving (due to the turbo lag) and in highway driving. It was getting up to highway speed and going up hills where the turbo seemed to have an advantage. Well, and at altitude. That is something to consider when you drive up into the Heights (named for it's nosebleed altitude of 140' above sea level, looking down on downtown Houston.)

>Gene, when will you be down here, even if we don't check out the car and you want to check out the Autorama.

I'm probably driving up on Wednesday. Thursday is for family but Friday and Saturday is flexible. I was considering driving to Austin to look at a '92 300 interior but it appears that the rear seat won't fit a "S" class and so that probably won't happen. One day I would like to hit a junkyard looking for interior items. A lot depends on the wife and whether we take two vehicles or not. I'm trying to get the 300SD long distance trip safe and there are few items to knock out first. New tires (tried today and Sam's won't sell them as the rims are supposedly not factory size (15" instead of 14")) and a minor vibration at 70 mph/3k RPMS (thinking driveshaft related.)

A group gathering would be good. How about Saturday? This allows everyone to recover from the Thanksgiving feasts and leaves the women folk (yes, I'm being sexist) free to brave the mall madness.