Diesels and Natural Gas? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

warmblood58 · #1 12-15-2008, 05:09 PM

I understand that diesels will run on natural gas. Has anyone done this?

alphadeltaromeo · #2 12-15-2008, 08:52 PM

There is a conversion that can be done. I know that in cali...there are diesel power plants running off of NG. I have considered this actually, as I will be producing methane from all of the chicken litter on my farm. From all of the research that I have done over the past 6 months, I should be able to produce 25k gallons of methane every 2 months. Typically methane is calculated in cubic feet...but this gives an estimate for a high level look at the potential.

The challenge with NG is that it requires significant compression to liquefy...I believe 1100psi. The MARTA (in Atlanta) public buses are NG powered and have high psi compression tanks on them for this purpose.

The reason I am so interested in methane (the major component of NG) is that my propane costs are quite high per year, and I can eliminate this operational expense. I have a 75kw gen for the farm that is also propane powered that will be converted. As a note, it's extremely easy to produce methane...extremely easy.

Andy

pawoSD · #3 12-15-2008, 09:02 PM

And you power your farm with a generator why? Utility power? I'm guessing thats got to be cheaper.....

alphadeltaromeo · #4 12-15-2008, 09:16 PM

No, the gen is for when commercial is out only. I'm looking into the implementation of the methane production in 09...hasn't been completed yet. I'm exploring fuel cells, as hydrogen can be extracted from the methane...or turbines as well directly from the methane...to produce the electric. The methane will primarily be used to replace the propane, which is used to heat the houses, but if I can secure some grants for the fuel cell/turbines as well...I'll do that. I burn approx 25k gallons of propane yearly to heat the houses.

oldiesel · #5 12-15-2008, 09:27 PM

you will have to add some sort of ignition system,or perhaps you could use some diesel to create the ignition for the gas as even if it would light from the heat of compression you would need a way to control the timing of when it would ignite. Dont take this as being negative i know it has been done,i heard of it in a large ice plant using a very large diesel running on city gas to power a large amonnia compressor to make ice but i am pretty sure they added a distributor and spark plugs, Don

Marty600 · #6 12-15-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadeltaromeo

The challenge with NG is that it requires significant compression to liquefy...I believe 1100psi. The MARTA (in Atlanta) public buses are NG powered and have high psi compression tanks on them for this purpose.
The reason I am so interested in methane (the major component of NG) is that my propane costs are quite high per year, and I can eliminate this operational expense. I have a 75kw gen for the farm that is also propane powered that will be converted. As a note, it's extremely easy to produce methane...extremely easy.

Andy

Well, I have a '98 F250 CNG with 53k on the clock i will be selling very soon...
Gvt. auction sourced, from Kansas city. It is a 'dedicated' sytem, runs great,
body needs a little help. It has 2 large tanks, and they are 'P30' nozzles, that's 3000 PSI of CNG. In Utah, CNG is about 75 cents a gallon. Here in Il. there are not enough stations for my liking. It has a 5.4 triton engine, and it is my understanding that it has been specially developed by Ford for this purpose, The system is factory Dearborn.. The tanks were made by "Lucas Aerospace", in England. New, CNG was a $6000 option!
Will be asking about $4500, delivered. Think about it...
( I am going to market it in SLC and OKC, in roughly a week)

Mister Byrnzoil · #7 12-15-2008, 11:31 PM

there were several different adverts in Diesel Power Mag this month...

http://www.natruell.com/

had 3 adverts in the same issue.

Diesel911 · #8 12-16-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldiesel

you will have to add some sort of ignition system,or perhaps you could use some diesel to create the ignition for the gas as even if it would light from the heat of compression you would need a way to control the timing of when it would ignite. Dont take this as being negative i know it has been done,i heard of it in a large ice plant using a very large diesel running on city gas to power a large amonnia compressor to make ice but i am pretty sure they added a distributor and spark plugs, Don

I was told in trade school that there are large industrial engines burning Natural gas but the you have to give a little shot of Diesel to get combustion started. The term they used was "Pilot Fuel".
It is not a new idea so there must be some info on the internet. Just saw an ad on TV last night were they said they were running a whold Plant on Methane from the near by dump/land fill site.

Another option is that you could just use a gas engine with a generator.

Sbean · #9 12-16-2008, 02:32 AM

The "little shot of diesel" idea is what I've heard mentioned for running a diesel on wood gas. During WWII there were thousands of wood gas "cookers" used in Europe, Asia, and Australia for gasoline engines. It seems they were all immediately junked when gasoline became available at the end of the war.
There are some people doing it now. Search net for "wood gas" or "producer gas". I have the plans from The Mother Earth News from the late 1970's.
Steve