Injector disassembly and cleaning tips?

[eatont9999]

Howdy, all,

Yesterday I pulled 5 injectors from an OM617 turbo 300D to clean and install in my car, an 83 300SD. Before dis-assembly, I pop tested them and 4 out of the 5 were OK but not near perfect. One was a pisser and the other 4 I could get to pee before popping if I tried to. I disassembled them one-by-one and soaked them in lacquer thinner for a few hours. The pisser injector was very dirty and rusty inside. The others were dirty but not near as bad. I lapped the mating surfaces with 2000 grit sand paper after a bath in Diesel fuel and I also put Diesel fuel on the sand paper while lapping. I used a picture frame with a glass surface to tape down the sand paper.

After my cleaning, I noticed the injectors pissed a little more than before. I was hoping for the opposite effect. They all break around 1900 PSI and depending on how hard I push on the pop tester, they can pop well or they can piss. 2 out of 5 piss no matter what and the other 3 still piss before popping.

I torqued them down, upon reassembly to the equivalent of 75nm.

My engine idles quite roughly and has low power along with delayed response. If I floor it, I have to wait for the engine to catch up and even still, the power is not what I would expect. It picks up a bit of power once the turbo decides to boost.

I replaced my #5 injector with one of the better injectors I rebuilt, along with the crush washer and cleaning the pre-chamber seat. I notice a slightly less rough idle than before and slightly more seat of the pants power. The #5 injector I pulled was a pisser no matter what pop pressure I applied. #4 was about the same as the injectors I rebuilt, so I reinstalled it. I am still working on the other 3 injectors 1-3.

Any advice? Did I screw something up rebuilding the spare injectors?

[scottmcphee]

Use good full strong strokes on the pop tester.

Slow lame cranks on it can make anything piss, but that's not the way your IP works.

New nozzle time?

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by scottmcphee

Use good full strong strokes on the pop tester.

Slow lame cranks on it can make anything piss, but that's not the way your IP works.

New nozzle time?

Some of the injectors pop better with a full stroke and some will just piss faster. I still have about 2 spare injectors that will piss no matter what.

It is new nozzle time for sure. I want Monark nozzles but they are out of stock until (hopefully) some time in June. I'll be installing those next. I think I will just wait and not waste my time any further. It's the nozzles I need so I can't do much good until I get them.

Still, if anyone has some tips on how to resurrect old injectors, even just a little, I'm all ears!

Thanks.

[Diesel911]

This pic shows a differen type of Injector Nozzle but the same applies to our Injctors.
I shows the erooded areas where the Pintel seats and seals.
Over time that area becomes extremely rough and creates that pissing you were speaking of.
Sometimes Carbon sort of fills in the rough areas and when you clean them the it makes them worse.

In diagram and blow up of area #12 how did you clean out passages #14 and #15?

Part of the test to see if the seating area of the Nozzle is good is to slowly bring the pressure up until it is 200psi below the Pop/Opening Pressure.
What you would like to see is no Fuel dripping from the Injector Nozzle Tip. However, the Manual allows X number of drops per-minute.

If it drips to much when you do that test you need another Nozzle.

[epowers777]

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/299321-diesel-injector-cleaning-diy.html

This may help you.

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by Diesel911

This pic shows a differen type of Injector Nozzle but the same applies to our Injctors.
I shows the erooded areas where the Pintel seats and seals.
Over time that area becomes extremely rough and creates that pissing you were speaking of.
Sometimes Carbon sort of fills in the rough areas and when you clean them the it makes them worse.

In diagram and blow up of area #12 how did you clean out passages #14 and #15?

Part of the test to see if the seating area of the Nozzle is good is to slowly bring the pressure up until it is 200psi below the Pop/Opening Pressure.
What you would like to see is no Fuel dripping from the Injector Nozzle Tip. However, the Manual allows X number of drops per-minute.

If it drips to much when you do that test you need another Nozzle.

Thanks for your reply. I didn't clean those passages aside from soaking the injector parts in lacquer thinner and using a brass brush on the exterior of the pintle. I did drip test the injectors. I brought the pressure up like you mention and either the injector pissed or it held. None of them drip. None of them pop crisply without pissing in-between and they won't chatter but instead, they spray a steady mist of fuel.

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by epowers777

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/299321-diesel-injector-cleaning-diy.html

This may help you.

Thanks, this is the tutorial I based my cleaning off. I don't have some of the tools he has like an ultrasonic cleaner, etc. I'm sure there are other things I could have tried but chances are, I need new nozzles and there isn't much getting around that.

[Phillytwotank]

I just got new nozzles. $ well spent!

[eatont9999]

Originally Posted by Phillytwotank

I just got new nozzles. $ well spent!

Can I ask from where and what brand?

Are you seeing better performance and response?

[Phillytwotank]

Monarks from the only place that one can get monarks.

yes and yes. no smoke either. smoother and quieter.

[eatont9999]

That's good to hear!

Last I checked they were out of Monark nozzles and not expecting any more until June. You must have bought the last set a few weeks ago, then.

[lupin..the..3rd]

Fratelli Bosio is also an excellent nozzle. I'm running them in my '97 E300. I had the local diesel specialist shop rebuild my injectors & install the new nozzles. They disassemble, ultra-sonic clean, reassemble, pop-test, and shim to the correct opening pressure. It wasn't expensive.

I bought mine from here: --MERCEDES-BENZ-- | Kerma TDI

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

Fratelli Bosio is also an excellent nozzle. I'm running them in my '97 E300. I had the local diesel specialist shop rebuild my injectors & install the new nozzles. They disassemble, ultra-sonic clean, reassemble, pop-test, and shim to the correct opening pressure. It wasn't expensive.

I bought mine from here: --MERCEDES-BENZ-- | Kerma TDI

When they have them the Monark Nozzles are around $24 each.
You can almost by 2 Monark Nozzles for the price of one Bosio.

[eatont9999]

Good news everyone! That guy in a lab coat has what you need in stock! That's right, the stuff that gets your motor running when you're down and out! He's selling the good stuff to his most loyal customers, if ya know what I mean.

Well, I ordered more than a bump with 5 Monark injector nozzles and a shim kit to boot. I'll take my time rebuilding the injectors by using the spare set I pulled at PNP.

I ordered some crush washers for the delivery valves from a local injection shop and I picked them up today. My #5 is leaking at the IP below the injector line. The gentleman on the phone suggested I order O-rings as well. I don't understand this recommendation because all the reading I have done says there are no rubber O-rings associated with delivery valve sealing on the OM617. I did see a diagram online of the whole valve unit removed (you know, the part you are not supposed to remove) and it did show a rubber O-ring around the upper base. I'm not sure about this and I am not sure why I can't remove the forbidden part. All I know is that if the copper DV seal doesn't fix my leak and the fact that I can pin the accelerator to the floor for 30+ seconds and hope I am at least up to 60MPH, I'll be posting here a new thread.

The car has always been a turd since I bought it. It gets worse when it warms up. I get very frustrated when I need a little goose and find the pedal to the floor while the car lethargically gathers speed. Sometimes it kicks in around 2000 RPM but it turds like a turtle before that. If I floor the car at stop light, it barely keeps up with things like SCHOOL BUSES! Then, sometimes it acts like it might have a pair of balls in there. Usually not but there are freak moments where the car acts like it just humped a Volkswagen.

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by eatont9999

Good news everyone! That guy in a lab coat has what you need in stock! That's right, the stuff that gets your motor running when you're down and out! He's selling the good stuff to his most loyal customers, if ya know what I mean.

Well, I ordered more than a bump with 5 Monark injector nozzles and a shim kit to boot. I'll take my time rebuilding the injectors by using the spare set I pulled at PNP.

I ordered some crush washers for the delivery valves from a local injection shop and I picked them up today. My #5 is leaking at the IP below the injector line. The gentleman on the phone suggested I order O-rings as well. I don't understand this recommendation because all the reading I have done says there are no rubber O-rings associated with delivery valve sealing on the OM617. I did see a diagram online of the whole valve unit removed (you know, the part you are not supposed to remove) and it did show a rubber O-ring around the upper base. I'm not sure about this and I am not sure why I can't remove the forbidden part. All I know is that if the copper DV seal doesn't fix my leak and the fact that I can pin the accelerator to the floor for 30+ seconds and hope I am at least up to 60MPH, I'll be posting here a new thread.

The car has always been a turd since I bought it. It gets worse when it warms up. I get very frustrated when I need a little goose and find the pedal to the floor while the car lethargically gathers speed. Sometimes it kicks in around 2000 RPM but it turds like a turtle before that. If I floor the car at stop light, it barely keeps up with things like SCHOOL BUSES! Then, sometimes it acts like it might have a pair of balls in there. Usually not but there are freak moments where the car acts like it just humped a Volkswagen.

The reason for not removing the forbidden part/s (the Elements;a.k.a. Plungers and Barrels) is/are that they adjust the Fuel for each one of those Elements by rotating the Element in the Slots that you see on them.

The adjustment is done on an expensive Calibration Machine that measures the Fuel Output versed the rpms of the Pump as it is being turned.
Shifting the Position of the Element can cause a big change in the Fuel Output.
Under the Elements are Shims that sort of time the Elements to the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft. In the old days they did that by Drip Timing Each Element with a Degree Wheel on the Drive End of the Fuel Injection Pump.

The other reason is on some Elements the Plunger can go in one of 2 ways when you stick it back in the Pump.
The above concerns MW Pumps

The M Pumps have some differences and need the O-rings to seal the Delivery Valve Holders.