A bit of fun to discuss - Diesel or electric?
 

What do think? Yes? No?

http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/autoshowblog/index.cfm
VW: Electric cars a unproven gamble, diesel the best way

While General Motors, Ford and Chrysler have enthusiastically embraced an electric future, Volkswagen AG says it's a potentially dangerous option because the technology is unproven and expensive.
Volkswagen, Europe's biggest automaker, said diesel engines provide a much better option.
"Electric cars will be the main mobility vehicle in the future, but very long term. You have to be very careful. For a start, there's no infrastructure," said Stefan Jacoby, president and CEO of Volkswagen of America.
For instance, many urban residents live in high-rises with street-only parking. It's unclear how such residents would recharge a battery-powered car.

Much of the U.S. electrical grid would need to be upgraded to deliver the proper voltage to recharge an electric vehicle, as well. Jacoby said VW, like every other car manufacturer, is evaluating battery power. It plans its own hybrids, too, but he said U.S. electric voltage wasn't ideal for recharging cars, and the extra cost per car was at least $8,000.
"It will take many years for it (electric power) to reach the mass market and no one knows about reliability in day to day use," Jacoby told a group of journalists meeting at the Detroit car show.
Jacoby acknowledged that gasoline power would have to be replaced with an interim solution.
Diesel engines, which power more than 50 percent of new cars sold in Europe, was the best alternative. Diesels provide great low down power, making them fun to drive as well as being more economic. Reliability is well proven, too.
Experts say diesel can be up to 35 percent more efficient than gasoline.
Jacoby said he agreed with J.D.Power's forecast that diesel engines in America would command a market share of about 9 percent by 2015 - roughly four times the share now.
He said the price of diesel at the pump, which now was significantly higher than gasoline, would probably be eliminated in the medium term.

In Europe 50% of all cars are diesel already so that's not a difficult sell. The image and hurdles to get diesels in the United States are high in terms of positive brand marketing and cost.

You can get diesels to market faster than you can the electrics. They're as mentioned easier to support yet I think all technologies need to be developed as they will interleave at some point.

I like my diesels...

It would be really nice to have some new car options other than Mercede$ Bluetec and the VW diesel cars which are hard to get.

A mid size diesel pickup would be cool in the US. Diesel versions of popular Japanese cars like the Civic, Camry, etc would be great to see.

I just hope they can run biodiesel without the check engine light going on :-)

dd

When I read this originally all of I could think of is a European politician. It seems like he is saying "we at VW will consider the electric in the fullness of time". Which really read to me "electric will never make it - we will make diesels until a better option comes along".

Even some of the comments about the grid seem to indicate this idea.

Now I do like the idea of diesel fuel coming down in price.:D

The us automotive said that by 2012 All US Car maker must have an electric car option.

I can't see anything to bring the price of diesel fuel closer to gasoline. If diesel usage increases, it seems it would even increase the difference. High diesel usage in Europe is one reason suggested for the current price difference in addition to the higher tax on diesel. The recently floated proposal for increased Federal fuel tax suggested a higher additional tax on diesel than on gasoline. What would make it come down? Unless/until the prices get closer I will not consider buying another diesel.

Diesel or nothing for me, from now on.

It truly is sick what most other countries have access to, in terms of diesel models...I just read an artice from Australia that was comparing a twin turbo Saab diesel to a Ford Mondeo diesel. I gotta say, the Aussie Fords don't look too bad!

The only thing inhibiting our production of diesel is the lack of refineries that can make ULSD. Otherwise, we'd just have to cut down how many gallons of gas are made per barrel, and make diesel with it instead!

The comparison must be tempered with the lower quality of diesel fuel (ULSD required) in the US compared to the rest of the world. Even ships at US ports have access to the higher cetane diesel but we can not use it in US cars and trucks. Everyone is paying for this minor benefit to clean air in the US.

I dont know, they burn sulfer coal and diesel in China and that is the worst polution I have ever seen. I would hate for us to go backward on clean air standards

as far as diesel or electric, I am hoping the new administration will work on the grid and clean sources like wind, solar, geothermal and algea diesel for power plants to generate hydrogen. I think hydrogen cars would have a chance against gas and diesel

Diesel or electric? Why not both? Certainly I wouldn't put all my eggs in the electric basket and diesels will remain a very useful alternative in the foreseeable automotive future. Somewhere I read new diesel-producing refineries are being built and that should minimize the price differential in the near future.

As to cetane and sulphur, it's certainly possible to have high-cetane ULSD. Europe has it, so why can't we? We just need a change in the law that only calls for a minimum of 40 cetane. That's way too low.

I'd love to see a plug in option. For short runs like to and from work and the store etc... and electric would be great and use the diesel truck for the longer runs. I like the idea of putting diesels in mid-size and small trucks. Oh wait, we don't have small trucks to buy anymore! The Ford Ranger is the smallest truck made and sold now - not that small. The manufacturer who brings back the small truck will make a killing.

The best of both worlds
 

Why not a diesel/electric. The diesel powered alternator only starts at the request of the battery monitor and then runs at it's most efficient RPM. The driver would have no control over this charging unit. The car is driven by inboard mounted wheel motors. ( flick a switch for 4 wheel drive )
but all 4 will regenerate when your foot comes completely off the throttle pedal. The wheel motor concept eliminates the expensive differential gear sets.
This would be a good tapering off vehicle. You got your diesel (to keep us happy) and an electric car to keep the environmentalists happy.
The little three banger in the Smart car will turn one hell of an alternator.
Comments please.

Diesel is dead in this country until diesel fuel comes down in price a bit.

I have been buying RUG for $1.59-$1.70 a gallon. The cheapest diesel is AT LEAST $1 more per gallon than that.

When I first got my SDL diesel was $.20 cents cheaper per gallon than RUG.


As much as I hate the VW Golf, I love the 27.5mpg I am getting on old spark plugs around town, and I love filling the tank with a $20 and having enough change left over to buy some soda's.:D I need the better part of three $20's to fill the SDL's tank...

I have been saying this for a long time. My vision has one electric traction motor per axle running through a differential, but I like your idea of 4 motors. I also would get rid of the battery and have the diesel alternator unit just run the motors. I would have a capacitor setup to give extra power when needed. The idea is to run the diesel at its most efficient speed and never vary it.


VW is making a big push for its 'Clean Diesel' Jetta TDIe Does this engine have the same urea injection as the MB or do they clean it up in another way?

The best thing we could do is get more BioD production going. It burns cleaner than dinoD and is renewable...