Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:50 AM
LaRondo's Avatar
Rondissimo
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 162
W123 300D starter replacement

I am looking at replacing the starter on my 82 300D.

My parts supplier warned me, "It's heavy". So far there is no problem, as long as it's cool. During summertime, the last 2 years I had an increasing number of starting failures.

In short, whenever it was hot or after a lengthy drive, the starter failed to kick in. The solenoid is audible. I've been told the windings are separating under temperature.

So I am looking into replacing it.

I am planning to have the car on jack stands and be lying underneath. Is that too awkward to work this?

I remember handling heavy starters in the past, working overhead in lying positions, the hassle was the cable and the wires.

Any tips?

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-11-2009, 10:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
The weight is not a problem. The problem is accessing the allen head bolts that hold it in. You need about 3' of extensions and a universal which is fed up from the back right side of the transmission . The bolts will be very tight and you will need a long breaker bar to loosen them. It is awkward with little room to leverage the bar. Then you have to have both front wheels up in the air to manoever the tie rods to a position where the starter will drop thru them. On my 77 this meant wheels all the way to the right. I think the position may be different for turbo models.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
As Kerry said.

It's a miserable job from underneath. I did it with the manifolds off the engine and installed it in 15 minutes..........a pleasure. But, the removal of it went no better than anybody else.

Also, I cannot fathom how folks can wire up the solenoid and install the forward mounting screws from underneath...........you're basically working blind..........you cannot get your eyes and hands in the same place at the same time.

Have a lot of patience...........it's going to take you all day.

This is one job where a lift is very tempting............I'd probably pay $150. for the privilege of having someone else install it. I'll bet a tech on a lift could do it in one hour.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:11 PM
NoCalMer's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: California
Posts: 211
I have changed mine now 3 times. I can pull it in 30 mins. from underneath. I drive up on ramps which I like better than jack stands for safety. I much rather lay on my back then bend over plus my trap oxidizer is in the way on my 85. It is true the back bolts are hard to get started when loosing them. I pull the battery cables and removed the steering stabilizer first. Then I remove the heat sheild first and all the other bolts except the two main rear hex bolts. I just use a 3/8 drive with a hex socket. There is just enough room to get some travel on the wrench to loosen it. A universal socket just makes it harder in my opinion. Once it is loosen a little I use my hands to loosen each bolt as I wiggle the starter around from the front. It is heavy so be careful and have a good grip and don't lay directly under it when you loosen the last bolt.

I just put in a new Bosch rebuild a few weeks ago and had the whole job done in a little over a hour. I will admit the first time took over 2 hours to pull it and reinstall it.

Goodluck
__________________
85 300D Turbo

Last edited by NoCalMer; 02-11-2009 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:13 PM
fruitcakesa's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,143
It must be a simpler job on the 240d.
When I replaced the block heater I pulled the starter to access the old heater. The starter mounting bolts loosened with no problem, one from below and one from above.
I then just hung the starter out of the way while changing the block heater.and if I had needed to remove it it looked like it could have jimmied out the tie rods with minimal problems
__________________
1981 240D 143k 4 spd manual -SOLD

2004 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed 300k -still driven daily
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-2009, 10:05 PM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Va
Posts: 7,820
A 240 should be able to swap out from under hood. I paid a mechanic $60 to replace the one on my SD.
__________________
83 SD

84 CD
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-2009, 10:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Coos Bay, OR
Posts: 212
I'm just now doing the same job on a $400 83 300D. I'm doing this from the top end and I'm taking the opportunity to replace all the leaky turbo seals etc.. Once you've done this from under the car (To get a starter out or in you must turn the wheels) you'll never do it again.
Regards
__________________
2dieseljohn
1979 300sd (283,000+) Road Trips
1983 240D 4-speed (350,000+) Daily Driver
1967 E-TypeS1 in bits and pieces
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-11-2009, 10:53 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dieseljohn View Post
I'm just now doing the same job on a $400 83 300D. I'm doing this from the top end and I'm taking the opportunity to replace all the leaky turbo seals etc.. Once you've done this from under the car (To get a starter out or in you must turn the wheels) you'll never do it again.
Regards
As you know.........you'll have to pull the turbo..........which is best done with the manifolds.

Whether that amount of work is less than the approach from below is questionable..........but, I agree that it might be preferable.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: PacNW
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
As you know.........you'll have to pull the turbo..........which is best done with the manifolds.
I disagree, I've done this several times(once to replace the starter and a few other while swapping tranny's) and it is definitely possible to remove w/o removing the turbo...
edit: I just realized that you were probably talking about the 'turbo stuff', not the starter...

-I put the front up in the air and then disconnect the battery.
-Then I remove the wires on the starter, the screw holding the relay wire is a little bit of a PITA, esp. when reinstalling it, but not too bad...
-then I take the two allen socket bolts that mount it to the bell with extensions and a wobbler/universal if necessary from underneath(a good set of forged american ones works best, avoid cheap extensions like the plague)...you can put a jack under the tranny and disconnect the rear mount for extra wiggle room if necessary...
-finally take the support bracket off...
- then to pull it from the vehicle, like others have mentioned , you drop it thru the suspension/steering linkages, this will be the most time consuming part your first time, but it WILL come out... turn the wheel all the way to the right and it should be obvious how it needs go...

Most of this is accomplished with a combination attack from above and below... would be helpful to have a competent person to assist you from above or below...

I'd say that it can be done in less than an hour the second time you do it, but the first time will take a competent mechanic a little longer. that being said, if you've never done it, plan for four hours and you should be pleasantly surprised with your time

I noticed you're on the 'west coast' Im in San Diego, if thats near to you I can help you out at some point, but I'm pretty busy so itll be on a 'as able' basis
josh

Last edited by SurfRodder; 02-11-2009 at 11:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,350
It took me about an hour the first time I did it but it was on an NA model if that makes any difference.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=477786&postcount=4
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:18 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfRodder View Post
I disagree, I've done this several times(once to replace the starter and a few other while swapping tranny's) and it is definitely possible to remove w/o removing the turbo...


extensions and a wobbler/universal if necessary from underneath


- then to pull it from the vehicle, like others have mentioned , you drop it thru the suspension/steering linkages,



The original statement was that the starter was pulled from above.

My statement is that you need to pull the turbo to do that.

You counter that you do not need to pull the turbo and then you show how you do just about all the work from below.

Well.......OK.......but, try to read the posts and stay with the program..........
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:46 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 15,438
Since I've done it so many times on the 300D....I can now do a full R&R of one in about 90 mins or less. I put the car on ramps, and remove the starter from above. I made my own little tool for getting the allen bolts in and out, way more effective and manageable than a 3' extension.....

The W126 is way easier, it comes out nicely from below.....
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
Since I've done it so many times on the 300D....I can now do a full R&R of one in about 90 mins or less. I put the car on ramps, and remove the starter from above.
The 300D has a turbo.

Kindly explain how you reach around the turbo and remove all the cabling and the front bracket from above.?

Then, explain how you hold the starter and lift it up and around the turbo??

I still don't believe it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-12-2009, 01:25 AM
LaRondo's Avatar
Rondissimo
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 162
Oh Boy.

I dunno if I want to attempt this. I am lacking the nessecary patience.

The problem: Paying my mechanic for labor is not enough, he also wants 2x the money for the starter .
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-12-2009, 01:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: PacNW
Posts: 65
again..where are you at... im sure someone who has done this is close to you...and prolly wouldnt mind lending you a hand... if youre anywhere near SD or LA, i *may* be able to do so....

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page