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W123 300D starter replacement
I am looking at replacing the starter on my 82 300D.
My parts supplier warned me, "It's heavy". So far there is no problem, as long as it's cool. During summertime, the last 2 years I had an increasing number of starting failures. In short, whenever it was hot or after a lengthy drive, the starter failed to kick in. The solenoid is audible. I've been told the windings are separating under temperature. So I am looking into replacing it. I am planning to have the car on jack stands and be lying underneath. Is that too awkward to work this? I remember handling heavy starters in the past, working overhead in lying positions, the hassle was the cable and the wires. Any tips?
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#2
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The weight is not a problem. The problem is accessing the allen head bolts that hold it in. You need about 3' of extensions and a universal which is fed up from the back right side of the transmission . The bolts will be very tight and you will need a long breaker bar to loosen them. It is awkward with little room to leverage the bar. Then you have to have both front wheels up in the air to manoever the tie rods to a position where the starter will drop thru them. On my 77 this meant wheels all the way to the right. I think the position may be different for turbo models.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#3
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As Kerry said.
It's a miserable job from underneath. I did it with the manifolds off the engine and installed it in 15 minutes..........a pleasure. But, the removal of it went no better than anybody else. Also, I cannot fathom how folks can wire up the solenoid and install the forward mounting screws from underneath...........you're basically working blind..........you cannot get your eyes and hands in the same place at the same time. Have a lot of patience...........it's going to take you all day. This is one job where a lift is very tempting............I'd probably pay $150. for the privilege of having someone else install it. I'll bet a tech on a lift could do it in one hour. |
#4
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I have changed mine now 3 times. I can pull it in 30 mins. from underneath. I drive up on ramps which I like better than jack stands for safety. I much rather lay on my back then bend over plus my trap oxidizer is in the way on my 85. It is true the back bolts are hard to get started when loosing them. I pull the battery cables and removed the steering stabilizer first. Then I remove the heat sheild first and all the other bolts except the two main rear hex bolts. I just use a 3/8 drive with a hex socket. There is just enough room to get some travel on the wrench to loosen it. A universal socket just makes it harder in my opinion. Once it is loosen a little I use my hands to loosen each bolt as I wiggle the starter around from the front. It is heavy so be careful and have a good grip and don't lay directly under it when you loosen the last bolt.
I just put in a new Bosch rebuild a few weeks ago and had the whole job done in a little over a hour. I will admit the first time took over 2 hours to pull it and reinstall it. Goodluck
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85 300D Turbo Last edited by NoCalMer; 02-11-2009 at 12:23 PM. |
#5
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It must be a simpler job on the 240d.
When I replaced the block heater I pulled the starter to access the old heater. The starter mounting bolts loosened with no problem, one from below and one from above. I then just hung the starter out of the way while changing the block heater.and if I had needed to remove it it looked like it could have jimmied out the tie rods with minimal problems
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1981 240D 143k 4 spd manual -SOLD 2004 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed 300k -still driven daily |
#6
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A 240 should be able to swap out from under hood. I paid a mechanic $60 to replace the one on my SD.
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83 SD 84 CD |
#7
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I'm just now doing the same job on a $400 83 300D. I'm doing this from the top end and I'm taking the opportunity to replace all the leaky turbo seals etc.. Once you've done this from under the car (To get a starter out or in you must turn the wheels) you'll never do it again.
Regards
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2dieseljohn 1979 300sd (283,000+) Road Trips 1983 240D 4-speed (350,000+) Daily Driver 1967 E-TypeS1 in bits and pieces |
#8
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Quote:
Whether that amount of work is less than the approach from below is questionable..........but, I agree that it might be preferable. |
#9
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Quote:
edit: I just realized that you were probably talking about the 'turbo stuff', not the starter... -I put the front up in the air and then disconnect the battery. -Then I remove the wires on the starter, the screw holding the relay wire is a little bit of a PITA, esp. when reinstalling it, but not too bad... -then I take the two allen socket bolts that mount it to the bell with extensions and a wobbler/universal if necessary from underneath(a good set of forged american ones works best, avoid cheap extensions like the plague)...you can put a jack under the tranny and disconnect the rear mount for extra wiggle room if necessary... -finally take the support bracket off... - then to pull it from the vehicle, like others have mentioned , you drop it thru the suspension/steering linkages, this will be the most time consuming part your first time, but it WILL come out... turn the wheel all the way to the right and it should be obvious how it needs go... Most of this is accomplished with a combination attack from above and below... would be helpful to have a competent person to assist you from above or below... I'd say that it can be done in less than an hour the second time you do it, but the first time will take a competent mechanic a little longer. that being said, if you've never done it, plan for four hours and you should be pleasantly surprised with your time I noticed you're on the 'west coast' Im in San Diego, if thats near to you I can help you out at some point, but I'm pretty busy so itll be on a 'as able' basis josh Last edited by SurfRodder; 02-11-2009 at 11:15 PM. |
#10
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It took me about an hour the first time I did it but it was on an NA model if that makes any difference.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=477786&postcount=4
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#11
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Quote:
My statement is that you need to pull the turbo to do that. You counter that you do not need to pull the turbo and then you show how you do just about all the work from below. Well.......OK.......but, try to read the posts and stay with the program.......... |
#12
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Since I've done it so many times on the 300D....I can now do a full R&R of one in about 90 mins or less. I put the car on ramps, and remove the starter from above. I made my own little tool for getting the allen bolts in and out, way more effective and manageable than a 3' extension.....
The W126 is way easier, it comes out nicely from below.....
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#13
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Quote:
Kindly explain how you reach around the turbo and remove all the cabling and the front bracket from above.? Then, explain how you hold the starter and lift it up and around the turbo?? I still don't believe it. |
#14
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Oh Boy.
I dunno if I want to attempt this. I am lacking the nessecary patience. The problem: Paying my mechanic for labor is not enough, he also wants 2x the money for the starter .
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#15
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again..where are you at... im sure someone who has done this is close to you...and prolly wouldnt mind lending you a hand... if youre anywhere near SD or LA, i *may* be able to do so....
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