Gelled Diesel: How do I fix this? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #31 02-26-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81300d

I just tested the battery by trying the radio, lights, turn signal, heat, etc. and all work just fine. Just though I'd let everyone know!

That doesn't tell you whether the battery and/or its connections are good enough to carry the load necessary to operate the starter. Only a load test will confirm the health of the battery. Usually if the battery connections are poor, when the 'click' occurs, the battery disconnects and the idiot lights go out until the connection is re-established.

Graplr · #32 02-26-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81300d

I just tested the battery by trying the radio, lights, turn signal, heat, etc. and all work just fine. Just though I'd let everyone know!

That doesn't mean there is enough juice to run the starter. You can get accessories that take little draw from the battery to work but major ones (like the starter and glow plugs) not to work. It may be is something else, but what you did doesn't eliminate a low charge on the battery as a contributor.

I would still charge the battery or try to jump it. When you try to start it next (and get the starter spinning) let the glow plugs go for 30 seconds before you try starting it.

pawoSD · #33 02-26-2009, 12:56 PM

Run a glow cycle and look at the dome light, if it fades away to nothing while glowing or cranking then your battery is shot.

81300d · #34 03-01-2009, 12:29 AM

Tried jumping the battery, no luck. Planning on trying to run a glow cycle and connecting terminals 1 and 3 tomorrow to charge the starter.

t walgamuth · #35 03-01-2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81300d

Tried jumping the battery, no luck. Planning on trying to run a glow cycle and connecting terminals 1 and 3 tomorrow to charge the starter.

what? Charge the starter? I am not familiar with what you are planning here.

cmbdiesel · #36 03-01-2009, 12:42 PM

When you tried jumping it, did the clamps spark when you connected them?
They will only spark when they are transferring current. If the battery is fully charged when you connect, no spark. If the battery is drawn down, then they will spark. Do you have a volt meter? Real good tool for this kind of issue. My guess is that you have a weak/dead battery. Even if you just replaced it, doesn't make it good. For a car to suddenly not crank when the temperature drops is nearly always a bad battery. If it is recently replaced, then you most likely have a problem in your charging system, although it is not unheard of to get a defective battery, depending on what and where you bought. Check for loose wires on the battery, on the alternator, and on the starter. Starter could also be an issue, drawing too much current, then when the cold strikes and your battery loses some of it's cold cranking amps, it can't overcome the impedence of the starter.
First thing I would do if I did not have a meter would be to actually switch the battery with one that I knew was good. (ie from a different vehicle)
If the car starts, then you know that the battery is at least part of your problem. If it doesn't, then you can move to the next step.

81300d · #37 03-01-2009, 03:59 PM

Tested the battery with a meter and it is working exactly as it should. I tried connecting the 1st and 3rd terminals in the junction box on the passenger side terminal and then running a glow cycle, but nothing.

dagumol · #38 03-01-2009, 04:12 PM

I'm new to diesel engines-save for a forklift and a garbage truck I drove for 3 years, so I have to ask....What is diesel fuel gelling mean? I have never hear that phrase before. Is it like when gas turn to varnish? How long does diesel last before going bad?

And please nobody reply, "Don't ask me, I'm just gellin!" >.<

kerry · #39 03-01-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81300d

Tested the battery with a meter and it is working exactly as it should. I tried connecting the 1st and 3rd terminals in the junction box on the passenger side terminal and then running a glow cycle, but nothing.

You have the process reversed. Glow, then connect 1 and 3. When you connect them the starter should turn over. Did it spark when you connected them? Do you have voltage at 1 or 3?

When you say you tested the battery with a meter, what do you mean? You have to load test a battery to tell if it has enough power to work the starter. A voltage meter won't tell you, although if it reads 5 volts, it's not going to work. But a battery with 12 volts is not necessarily a battery with enough power to turn the engine over.

Gelling means the fuel turns from a liquid to a solid. #2 diesel, with no additives will start gelling around 0 or so I think.

81300d · #40 03-01-2009, 04:29 PM

VICTORY! Tried tapping the solenoid with a hammer and wah-la! Thank you everyone.

Graplr · #41 03-01-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagumol

What is diesel fuel gelling mean? I have never hear that phrase before.

The reason you have never heard about it is because it is something you don't have to worry about in Texas.

When it gets really cold, diesel fuel starts to cloud up and solidify. This is what 'gelling' means.

71inka02 · #42 03-01-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagumol

I'm new to diesel engines-save for a forklift and a garbage truck I drove for 3 years, so I have to ask....What is diesel fuel gelling mean? I have never hear that phrase before. Is it like when gas turn to varnish? How long does diesel last before going bad?

And please nobody reply, "Don't ask me, I'm just gellin!" >.<

Here ya go -- some good basic informaiton and terminology for Diesel:

#'s 6, 7, 11, 17 & 18 are good info for this topic...

1. BIOCIDES killor inhibit microorganism growth and prevent the effects of microbiological growth. Serious problems that can arise from microbiological proliferation are: sludge formation, acid andsurfactant formation with subsequent water entrainment and fuel filter, screen, and line plugging.

2. BLENDED DIESEL FUEL is one that combines #1 diesel fuel (i.e. kerosene) with #2 diesel fuel. The ratio of diesel fuel to kerosene is typically found in the range of 80:20, 70:30, 60:40, or 50:50. See "Kerosene Blended Diesel Fuel" under Resources for additional information.

3. BRITISH THERMAL UNIT is a measure of the energy content of diesel fuel. Technically, a British Thermal Unit is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 lb. (0.4 kg) of water 1°F. Diesel fuel that has a higher BTU content will experience an increase in engine power and fuel economy.

4. CETANE IMPROVERS increase the cetane number of diesel fuel. Cetane number is the most universally accepted measure of the ignition quality of diesel fuel. Proper ignition during the combustion cycle is essential to optimum operation, economics, and durability.

5. CLOUD POINT is the temperature at which wax crystals in diesel fuel begin to form and the fuel goes from a clear appearance to a cloudy appearance. See Pour Point.

6. COLD FILTER PLUGGING POINT (CFPP) is a test to evaluate the effectiveness of diesel fuel additives in improving winter fuel operability. The CFPP test involves pulling a determined amount of fuel through a fuel filter in a given amount of time. The temperature is dropped in small increments and when the fuel fails to pass through the fuel filter in the given amount of time it fails the test.

7. COLD FLOW IMPROVERS are designed to depress the cold temperature operability limit of diesel fuel. Cold flow improvers modify the size and shape of wax crystals that form as the fuel is cooled below the cloud point. Crystals in untreated fuel have relatively large flat structures and tend to stick to one another to form a lattice structure or gel. The crystallization of wax in diesel fuel causes waxing/gelling. Cold flow improvers reduce the crystal size to 1/10 or less of the size of untreated crystals to reduce waxing/gelling.

8. COMBUSTION IMPROVERS increase fuel economy through improved combustion efficiency and/or reduce diesel exhaust emissions and smoke.

9. CORROSION INHIBITORS prevent oxidation (rust) on metallic surfaces due to moisture and acids.Corrosion inhibitors can protect against two of the three types of corrosion, typical oxidation on metallic surfaces due to moisture and internal corrosion of injectors. Microbial induced corrosion may not be addressed by typical corrosion inhibitors. See Biocides for more information on microbial induced corrosion.

10. CUMMINS L-10 INJECTOR DEPOSIT TEST is used to evaluate the effectiveness of diesel fuel additives in improving fuel injector performance. The test consists of configuring two Cummins L10 engines in tandem, connected by a drive shaft. For 125 hours, the engines alternate from power to idle in 15-second intervals, one engine pulling the other for 15 seconds, and then reversing roles. To pass, two criteria must be met. First, there must be a flow loss of less than six percent. Flow loss indicates a loss of power from a dirty injection system. Second, there must be a CRC Rating of 10 or less. The injectors are disassembled and the carbon build-up is visually rated by a trained technician. The technician assigns a numerical score of 1 to 40 with 1 indicating a new/clean injector and 40 indicating a very dirty injector. To pass the Cummins L10 test, all six injectors must have an average CRC Rating of 10 or less.

11. DEICERS reduce the freeze point of water that may separate from the fuel or disperse the water in such small droplets that ice crystal formation is precluded or inhibited.

12. DETERGENTS/DISPERSANTS prevent deposit formation or remove preformed deposits in the combustion chamber and on injector parts. Detergent/dispersant benefits include improved fuel economy, increased engine life, increased fuel system and fuel filter life, and reduced exhaust emissions and smoke.

13. DIESEL FUEL is principally a blend of petroleum-derived compounds called middle distillates, which are heavier than gasoline but lighter than lube oil. Diesel fuel is combustible and used for fuel in diesel engines.

14. DIESEL FUEL ADDITIVE isa chemical added to diesel fuel to enhance one or more of its properties.

15. EMULSIFIERS chemically react one liquid with another liquid. An emulsion is a suspension of one substance in another substance. Emulsifiers have the ability to remove water from diesel fuel and do not allow water to settle out.

16. FLASH POINT isthe temperature at which a liquid will yield enough flammable vapor to ignite.

17. GELLING/WAXING is a thickening of diesel fuel caused by wax crystals which form as the temperature of the fuel is reduced. Gelled/waxed diesel fuel is difficult or impossible to pump and will plug fuel filters, preventing fuel from reaching the engine.

18. ICING isthe formation of ice crystals in diesel fuel caused by free water within the fuel. Icing occurs whendiesel fuel is cooled to 32°F or below. Ice crystals will plug filters in the same manner as wax crystals. See Gelling/Waxing.

19. KEROSENE isa class of middle distillate diesel fuel used for blending winter diesel fuel. Kerosene is also referred to as #1 diesel fuel. See "Kerosene Blended Diesel Fuel" under Resources for additional information.

20. LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL FEDERAL SPECIFICATION
a. Dates: 1994-2006
b. Sulfur Content: 500 ppm Maximum
c. Cetane Rating: 40 Minimum
d. Percent Aromatics:35% Maximum
e. Note: For important changes currently in effect, see Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

21. LUBRICITY refers to the ability of a fluid to reduce the friction and wear between two moving surfaces. Diesel fuel lubricity refers to the ability of diesel fuel to prevent wear on contacting solid surfaces found in fuel pumps and injectors.

22. LUBRICITY IMPROVERS protect against wear of the engine fuel system (e.g., injection pump, injectors, etc.) by forming a protective layer on metal surfaces. Lubricity improvers prolong the life of critical wear parts in the fuel system, reduce downtime, and reduce maintenance costs.

23. POUR POINT is the temperature at which diesel fuel will no longer flow. The difference between the cloud point and the pour point is generally from 0°F to 15°F.

24. STABILITY IMPROVERS prevent fuel degradation by preventing various reactions. Stability improvers prevent fuel from degrading and eliminate gum deposits from forming in the fuel filter and on engine components.

25. THERMAL STABILITY refers to the ability of diesel fuel to maintain its chemical properties at high temperatures. Thermal stress (high temperatures) can cause diesel fuel to degrade and form insoluble materials that can restrict fuel flow through fuel filters and injection systems.

26. ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL FEDERAL SPECIFICATION
a. Dates: 2006 - Present
b. Sulfur Content: 15 ppm Maximum
c. Cetane Rating: 40 Minimum
d. Percent Aromatics: 35% Maximum

cmbdiesel · #43 03-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Lot's of good reading there, but it doesn't mention home heating fuel, my car's favorite food.
Same as #2 diesel from the pump, just without the dye and taxes.
That and they deliver.

WD8CDH · #44 03-01-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Lot's of good reading there, but it doesn't mention home heating fuel, my car's favorite food.
Same as #2 diesel from the pump, just without the dye and taxes.
That and they deliver.

Not true. Heating oil is not tested for cetane, it may or may not be 40 or above. Heating oil also has no lubricity spec. It may or may not lubricate as well as diesel. Diesel meets all of the specs for heating oil but not the other way around.

It may run just fine in an old MB, but it is not the same thing.

Ian White · #45 03-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Plus there could be hefty fines in your state like there is in mine for the use of non highway fuel over the highways. Here in Washington State we have one of the highest gas taxes in the nation and if you get caught under law prescribed in R.C.W. you are punishable by up to a $10,000 fine

yuk!