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It worked fine before I pulled the motor. So I'm assuming I didn't put it together right. I will drop the transmission and start over.
I have already done the P and D and removed the line to the cooler and no pressure. It just dribbles out. I'm sure it's just not lined up right. Somehow I got it together regardless. Check back here next week for an update. I won't be able to get to it until Sunday or Tuesday. |
Question
How much fluid did you put in the transmission?
If the converter/pump is air cavitating = no output pressure = never install an empty/dry converter. |
I put in 7 qts. and it's showing half way up the entire dipstick. So it appears that not much is getting into the TC.
When I drained it yesterday, to kind of "start over", I would say about 4 qts came out of the TC. Do you know of any other checks or tests to run to determine if the problem is the pump or improper installation? I am going to drop the trans out and replace it with the other TC (fill it first), but I would hate to get it all back together and find it still does not pump. I do have the other transmission off the 87 350SDL, I guess I could just swap the trans out completely. |
I believe there is a plug on the side of the trans where you can plumb in a pressure gage. I don't recall which one it is, maybe someone on the forum knows. You should have pump pressure anytime the engine is running, regardless of shift selector position, as I recall. Mercedes calls it "working pressure". If you don't have pressure, either the pump is not being driven or it is not pumping. I believe improper torque converter installation could damage the pump rather quickly. Maybe another forum member has some more insight or more ideas, but I think it is time to put the known good torque converter into the known good trans and install them in your car. If the pump has been damaged it may send metal through the rest of your trans and cause it to fail soon, even if you could just reseat the converter and make it work. If you put your other converter in the car and damage it you will have to buy a converter, plus do a trans swap.
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Here's the update so far.
I dropped the transmission. Nothing amiss, but I went ahead and pulled the TC. Drained and filled the other first. Made sure it was seated, lifted and slid it into place. Bolted everything back up, fired it up. Let it run for 5 minutes or so....still no gears. If I rev it up pretty high, the wheels start to turn but I can stop them with my hand. Checked the pressure, still nothing. Not even idle pressure. So, I guess the next step will be to take the transmission out of the 87 300SDL "parts car" and put it in the 350SD. Any tips or pointers I should know before I take on this swap? I have never done a transmission change out. I'll keep you updated. |
You say you "lifted and slid the converter into place" Did you turn the converter while installing it and feel the pump drive lugs engage the slots in the front pump? If the drive lugs don't engage the pump you will still have no pressure. If this is not the problem, your front pump has probably failed and it is time to change the tranny. You may end up going with a new converter now, because usually front pump failure will contaminate everything downstream, and it is about impossible to remove all the contamination from the converter. That's why I had advised not to put the other converter in this tranny. The surest way to get your car back on the road at this point is buy a reman converter and install it along with the trans from your parts car.
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Would have been nice to have examined the front pump while you had it out. I have seen one with both driving tangs sheared off.
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I did turn the TC and heard fluid. I have to get a better way to remove the transmission. There was very little I could do while balancing it on a block of wood on top of a floor jack. I guess I am really going to be doing this, so I may as well get a few things to make the work easier.
I was having dinner after wards and my son says, "Dad, you have mechanic fingers". I smashed another one between the transmission and something. Now I have two fingernails on the verge of displacement. Kingdoc1, what do you mean by contamination? I have found no signs of metal or anything anywhere. I drained the old TC and found the brand new ATF that I put in the other day. I even matched color to brand new fluid and it was exactly the same in a glass. I drained the transmission...again, and still the same color as the brand new fluid. I have never found anything in the ATF, ever, at all. |
Agree
Quote:
The converter must be rotated 7-14 revolutions, and gently pushed in, feeling the 3 or 4 seat steps. If the torque converter was not seated fully/correctly before installing the first time, the pump would be wrecked during transmission mounting. |
a better way to remove the transmission
Quote:
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Hmm 7-14 revolutions? That's good to know, but why so many ( I will be putting one in in a few weeks)?
Is it good to avoid the number 13?:D |
Answer
Quote:
Each seating allows the torque converter to set deeper in the bell housing. |
Just what I need, another reason to stop at HFT. I stop there every day on my way home from work (twice/week).
I probably will not be able to give an update for a week. I will have to get the transmission out of the other car and do a switch. I will let you all know how it goes from there. Thank you for all the advice and info on getting these things "matched up". |
If you look into the transmission past the input shaft seal, you will see the front pump gear. You should see two slots in the gear 180 degrees apart, these are where the little raised tangs on the torque converter hub must engage to drive the front pump. When you look at the end of the transmission input shaft, you will notice that there are a couple of different sized splined areas--these fit into female splines in the torque converter. If you look into the converter you will see them. As whhunter stated, you must spin the converter as you install it and you will notice that it will seat further into the bell housing as each splined shaft engages and as the drive hub tangs engage the slots in the front pump gear. When you install the converter bolts, you will notice that you will actually move the torque converter forward, toward the engine crankshaft when it is installed properly. You will also notice with the engine and trans bolted together and the torque converter bolts not installed, the converter should spin easily. If you can't turn it easily, something is very wrong. A simple way to tell if you have installed the converter properly would be to place a straightedge across the front surface of the bellhousing and push the converter all the way back and measure the distance from the center of the converter where it seats in the crankshaft to the straightedge. Of course, you would measure this before you remove the original converter, and then when you reinstall the converter you would know it is seated all the way. Once you have it in correctly, you must make sure it does not slide out while you are manuevering the trans into place under the car, not an easy task if you are trying to install a trans with a block of wood and a floor jack. I have used a large c-clamp in the past, clamping it to the lower part of the bellhousing in such a way that it is against the converter and will not allow it to slide forward. By contamination I mean that if the converter is not properly installed, then parts that should be rotating coupled together may be rubbing on each other, and this can cause minute metal shavings to be generated that will circulate with the fluid. Since the metal is generated in the area of trans that is downstream of the filter, it can travel into the inner workings of the trans unfiltered, when it can damage other components. The pump fills the torque converter with fluid, so the converter is one of the first places the trash is going, and it is about impossible to clean it all out. If you then put the contaminated converter into a good trans, it may work for a short time, but it will ultimately destroy your good trans. Don't take that chance, unless you are willing to gamble the price of another trans and converter.
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I wish I didn't have to go to work tomorrow!!!
I want to go out right now and get started with this info!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yahoooooo, I can't wait!!! Thank you!! |
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