Hey guys. I feel like i've been reading mercedes forums non stop for the last couple weeks, plowing for raw data. Having a hard time with it so it's come time to start asking.

I'm looking to move ~3500 lbs efficiently. I will accept no less than 35city/40hwy. Its got to be a comfortable power level too - something above 150hp.

I used to drive a wagon with a OM617, so I started research from there, for simplicity and familiarity sake. Then found that anything newer would be more efficient, but a drop in life expectancy (which isnt a big deal).

Which brought me to just short of common rail. It would be nice to retain the Mercedes Diesel "chug" for the mercedes its going in. Its the OM606 non-turbo, which i'm leaning pretty hard towards. But my tuning experience is making me find out more about the OM601 for example, in that I would boost it, tuned for suburban streets.

But in the search for info, i've come up with a better understanding of CDi technology. Granted, utilizing the stock ECU for the engines would be considerably difficult from what i've been reading so I would end up tuning it with an aftermarket controller. A factor that weighs positively or negatively for the difference between mechanical injection and the common rail systems.

With that all said, what are your thoughts? I need some direction here so I can start my search for wrecked subjects and start the build.
Side note, its for an old mercedes to be built for family duty.
So should it be OM606 or OM611? What are your thoughts regarding this topic in general? Do you have numbers or sites I should read up on?
I have TONS of other questions but first need a direction.
TIA,
-William

I hope You don't expect that mileage while towing 3500lbs

You don't really have a big choice unless You are moving to Europe soon. VW TDI's will do better than that but You are on MB forum so I guess no VW for You. Then You have Bluetec if You have the money. If not then I can't think of anything else within Your criteria. 124 2.5 turbo and 190D are close with MPG but not 150hp+

The figures provided are relative and at the same time, not so. 3500 is slightly high for a large sedan. 35/40 are easily possible, from what i've read from OEM configurations. and 150hp actually means nothing considering we dont know if the engine in question should be NA or boosted or of some swanky BT tech.
If you feel that the 124 and 201 had good engines, please, give me some more details! They both had like 4 different diesels configurations so you'll have to elaborate.

The thing about under powered motors is that it would waste fuel trying to move a large car. Your OM617 isnt bad but sorta sluggish. I know because the W123 wagon weighs about the same as the 300SD.

The other problem that i'm faced with is availablity. There is just no chance of Bluetec. The CDi's will be somewhat limited too. But a diesel 190? They are pretty rare for me to find in the yards, wrecked or craigs. W210's on the other hand are dropping like flies and easy pickings.

Speaking from the standpoint of many years of towing experience, get a truck and not just any truck, one that is equipped for towing. It isn't about the power, and the word "diesel" dosn't automatically mean tow vehicle...... it's about drivetrain, braking and cooling systems. Sure, there are folks who have towed fairly significant loads with an MB but usually on a one-time basis and taking great risk to themselves, vehicles and other drivers. And I'm sure, if the facts were known, it wasn't for efficiency.

This isn't meant to be harping, only trying to save you a lot of grief. After helping a couple of friends try to pick up the pieces after accidents, I try to steer others away from the dangers of towing with vehicles not designed for such purposes.

__________________
Sam

84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )

So are you just talking about moving the car itself efficiently or are you intending to tow something?

The only cdi that might see the 35-40mpg range is the E320 cdi sedan.....

The 606-turbo cars can probably get 35ish highway.....so that would be a good choice....very long lived engine.

The 190d 2.2 non turbo can probably come close to 35.....but thats the only older one that will come close. The rest will probably be about 6-8mpg below that.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

Yes, I pointed at 124 2.5 turbo because they get nice MPG.
People here who own 2.5 swear by them and those engines are strong, solid like 300D but also more efficient.

201 diesels are indeed rare but do exist even with 5sp manual. Some folks however think they're to small and tend to rust more than other models.
After looking and driving many many MB the next one I'll buy will be 87' 300SDL (other than SEC, that is if God allows)

I don't think he's talking about towing 3500 pounds but rather driving a 3500 pound car with good power while still maximizing fuel economy. I think it's possible to approach but not meet the required numbers in a reasonable fashion (cheaply).

A W124 ("E class") with an OM602 turbocharged engine would be a possibility although neither the HP nor the mileage will be quite as high as desired. A 190D ("C class" – is that a W201?) with the same engine would have a slightly lighter body and so would get better mileage and more performance from the same HP but would not meet the 3500 pound criterion. It's probably as close as one could come without spending a lot of money since you could buy one built by the factory. An '87 300D (W124/OM603) would come closest to meeting your power spec at reasonable cost while still getting good mileage but not as good as the 602.

Another possibility might be to see if an OM602 would fit into a W210 car. The W210 may be slightly slipperier than a W124; I don't know how big a job the transplant would be.

Finally, the 240D/manual transmission folks have always been able to come up with good numbers for fuel economy but, of course, not anywhere near 150 HP.

Jeremy

__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

The turbofied 616 crowd claim high 30's, probably 70-90HP

__________________
CC: NSA

All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times

It's hard to

more likely to

concentrate on

have an accident

two things

when you're on

at the same time.

a cell phone.

www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?

190D 2.2, E320 CDI or VW IDI/TDI are the only ones that will get that kind of economy but only the CDI has more than 100hp.

How about this...what are you putting it into? That will open up availabilities for more ideas.

__________________
My Primary Driver - '85 300CD - 4-speed conversion, 2.47 rear, lowered, euro headlights, rebuilding (not restoring so much)

Wife's - '08 Saab Sportcombi Aero

Riding a '03 Yamaha Warrior

How about full load adjustment on the IP of the 602? That might get you closer to 150 hp and only use more fuel if you use the power..

35 mpg city is pretty steep though, I doubt you'll see that regardless of which MB you have, with the exception of maybe the 190d 2.2

I guess the "ultimate" car that might meet this criteria is a 190DT with full load and a 5-speed. That would be fun!

__________________
Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

get a TDI and if you're looking to do a motor swap be prepared to spend some serious money on any of those engines newer than a 617.

Thanks for clarifying things Jeremy! There is no intent on towing anything.

And for further clarification, there's no way I would go pre-60x series due to the dated technology, inefficiency, and slew of other options currently out there.
Yes, if you dont know your resources and options, things can get expensive fast. But building budget racecars for the last few years has helped in the budget build department. But that neither is the case here. This is an investment i'm willing to make because i refuse to drive anything new or anything that i cant understand... or check my own oil with a dipstick. If the build ends up costing me $40k that i cant afford w/o a loan, so be it. Its a better investment than any current model on the market.

This has been a lifesaver when you guys start spouting mercedes jargon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercedes-Benz_engines
I've got BMW body/engine codes stuck in my head so i understand the mentality. I just need to get on board.




So far, it's coming down to try and understand the differences between the 603/602/601 and 606/605/604 and 613(?)/612/611 and 642/647/646.

• The first group is still dual valve like the elder 61x series, basicly the multi-million mile group.

• The second is revised efficiency, 4-valve, and self adjusting valves.

• The third group, the lower 61x series, is the common rail technology with elimination of IP and more computer controlled system.

• And lastly the more recent bunch which moves away from the straight configurations and intro of Bluetec.

Correct me if i'm wrong. My data isnt quite all there.

The newer the engine, the more power output it gained, thus the smaller it can be. But, on the down side, it has an increase in complexity to manage w/o its OEM components. (maybe)
The other factor i find amusing is this site has a lot of 80's diesel supporters. And i mean you guys will kill anyone that defaces those engines, lol. Thats all good, i loved my 617! But its no where near what a diesel should stand for in our time of 21 century technology. I want to choose an engine that I can go to the pump and not be greatly concerned with the cost/gallon because it should carry me further than a petrol heart.

The bay is huge! A V8 would typicaly reside there so a 606 or 613 will have no problem going in. Heck, i helped shoehorn an LS1 into an '86 3 series.
Electronics and mechanical fabrication are not lacking skills when it comes to this automotive hobby so the project isnt whats bothering me, its the lack in information that i'm able to find so easily.

If you guys have links to "hot to's" for modifying IP's and topics of that nature that would obtain more from a certain engine, lets have 'em.
Ive been reading a lot of those kinds of threads but they get on tangents and eronious data gets included. Its extrememly hard to straight edge my way through the termonology w/o having been doing this for a number of years. I know it will require a bit of study and i'm all over it, i'm just asking for any help i can get.

so wait.. you want to build something and put a 603 or something like that in it?

the 603 is a single cam engine, the 606 is the twin cam which is known for snapping glow plugs off in the head. Its more powerful than the 603 but it is just a pita with the glow plugs snapping(if it happens)


the 61x is not common rail.. thats something modern that is found in the CDI's and new diesel engines. Every engine until the new CDI's and blue tec has been mechanical fuel injection either mechanical adjustment or electronic in the 606.

I would suggest just buying a nice TDI golf if you want some serious mileage. They are DIY friendly and very straight forward. But hey, Its all you.