1986 190D 2.5 any good? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

biopete · #1 05-31-2009, 11:18 AM

Looking at an 86 190D with 2.5 engine, no turbo of course, with somewhere between 260,000 and 275,000 miles. Does anyone have any opinions or reviews they would like to share? What is the good the bad and ugly? Anything i should look out for when looking at this car? Are these cars enjoyable to own?

bigblockchev · #2 05-31-2009, 12:57 PM

I have an 87 190d. It is a great little car. Without the turbo it is slow. It is quieter than my wife's 300d. The usual benz issues to look for when buying, auto trans, injection pump, AC controls & blows cold, vacuum issues like central door locks and engine stop as well as underdash vacuum pods, rust in front of the rear wheel wells, broken air dam below the front bumper, cracked upper dash, cracked switch panels beside speedo. Pretty much similar to other benzs. Easy to get body parts for not so easy to get engine parts. A nice car to own, not as much of a tank to drive as the bigger ones. Cheers Dan

biopete · #3 05-31-2009, 03:07 PM

Thanks a lot bigblockchev. What is your mpg on that thing? So far from my reading these seem to be pretty good benzs. Not overly problematic. I like the way you can replace the front control arm complete with ball joint and all for reasonable price. I've also read a few times of people with over 400,000 on their engines so that is encouraging. The seller says it has way more power than his 84 2.2L 4 cylinder 190D. And compared to my 85 300D i bet it flies.

I'm after a little better mpg, easy to maintain, and hopefully better seats

bigblockchev · #4 05-31-2009, 06:50 PM

I get around 32mpg on the hiway on B100 which in my experience is about 15% less than Dino. In town it is less. As far as engine wear they seem to be quite understressed so I would expect them to last quite a while. As usual there are some things which don't last forever like seals and timing chains which can cause maintenance issues even if the engine itself is not worn. If your 85 was a turbodiesel then is suspect that it was faster than the 190D. Run the VIN through the Mercedes Benz club or Russia website & you will get and idea of what equipment was installed when the car was new, http://old.mbclub.ru/mb/vin/?lng=eng
Cheers

JonL · #5 05-31-2009, 07:49 PM

I like my '87, but it has NOT been cheap to own despite relatively low mileage. I've got a post somewhere that lists everything I've done to it over about four years of ownership. I do all the work myself and it still has cost a small fortune. I've rebuilt the auto transmission, replaced the head, hydraulic lifters, starter, alternator, A/C compressor, heater core, vacuum pump, front suspension overhaul incl. springs (one broke), plus the normal stuff... glow plugs, filters, belts, etc. Currently awaiting replacement of one of the heater flap vacuum motors, sunroof inoperative (mechanically jammed, not the cable), rear suspension needs work, waiting on new injector nozzles, etc. etc. etc. etc.

If you do buy the car, find out if the vacuum pump has been replaced. The original pump is a ticking time bomb that can easily destroy your engine. I replaced mine (~$300!) as preventive maintenance.

I get about 28 MPG in mixed driving that includes many very short trips (about 1 mile from home to work) as well as a decent amount of highway. I'm hoping rebuilding my injectors will bump the MPG up a bit as well as making it start and idle a little better.

biopete · #6 05-31-2009, 11:11 PM

Thanks. i'll search for your thread JonL.

volosong · #7 06-01-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

...If you do buy the car, find out if the vacuum pump has been replaced. The original pump is a ticking time bomb that can easily destroy your engine. I replaced mine (~$300!) as preventive maintenance...

What pump is this? I just purchased an '84 190D 2.2 stick shift. Car seems to be in good condition. Radiator just replaced before purchase. No idea what else. A/C needs a recharge and the cruise control is inop. Thinking I'll just have to do without the cruise, even though I really like and use them. The car is so gutless that a cruise control is pretty worthless in hilly terrain.

Where should I look for this vacuum pump? How can it "destroy" the engine?

btw, on only two tanks of fuel, I'm averaging 36.2 mpg, mix of city, mountain, and freeway driving - about equal parts timewise, less so mileswise.

sasquatchgeoff · #8 06-01-2009, 02:08 AM

I am in the process of rebuilding the top end of my 86 190D. Before starting the work I averaged 37 mpg. It has the old style vac pump and I am saving to replace it - considering going electric - once I get that, I can button her back together complete.

Rebuilt head (valve guides, seals) timing chain (only had 3* stretch after 247K!) chain tensioner, rebuilt injectors, heater motor, combination switch, rebuilt trans (warranty), new alt, new rear pinion seal, new brakes, new radiator, new coolant pump (was fine - replacing anyhow) new belt tensioner assembly, replaced cruise actuator. Actually all pretty much minor considering what I paid for it.

They are good riding, efficient cars. The 2.5 NA makes 'em pretty peppy compared to the other NA's. If the engine has been taken care of I would pick up another in a heart beat - they seem to be pretty scarce these days - the good ones anyhow.

- geoff

JonL · #9 06-01-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volosong

What pump is this? I just purchased an '84 190D 2.2 stick shift. Car seems to be in good condition. Radiator just replaced before purchase. No idea what else. A/C needs a recharge and the cruise control is inop. Thinking I'll just have to do without the cruise, even though I really like and use them. The car is so gutless that a cruise control is pretty worthless in hilly terrain.

Where should I look for this vacuum pump? How can it "destroy" the engine?

btw, on only two tanks of fuel, I'm averaging 36.2 mpg, mix of city, mountain, and freeway driving - about equal parts timewise, less so mileswise.

Do a search of the diesel forums for vacuum pumps. It's the small pump on the front of the timing cover in line with the injection pump. It produces vacuum for the brake booster, transmission modulator (you don't have that with a manual transmission), and climate control flaps. You can also find the pump by tracing the large vacuum line from the brake booster.

The pump is driven from a swashplate cam on the injection pump timing device. The pump has a ball-bearing cam follower. When the bearing fails, it may spill its guts into the timing chain jamming up the works and causing major engine damage. Even if you are lucky and the balls don't jam the chain, the timing device will almost certainly be trashed and it is not cheap.

The German pump will set you back around $300. There's a Chinese pump available for about half that, but the jury is out on the quality. I'm beginning to suspect that the Chinese pump is made by (or for) the German company. I'm finding LOTS of specialized parts for European cars now made in China (what else is new). Lower control arms for a BMW 325ci. Complex multi piece molded breather hose for a Volvo V70. Etc.

Nice MPG! Good luck with the car.

sasquatchgeoff · #10 06-01-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

The German pump will set you back around $300. There's a Chinese pump available for about half that, but the jury is out on the quality. I'm beginning to suspect that the Chinese pump is made by (or for) the German company. I'm finding LOTS of specialized parts for European cars now made in China (what else is new). Lower control arms for a BMW 325ci. Complex multi piece molded breather hose for a Volvo V70. Etc.

Nice MPG! Good luck with the car.

The Allparts web catalog shows a pic:

The sticker shows "Made in Germany"
It is possible that the item is "fabbed" in Germany - from foreign components?

sasquatchgeoff · #11 06-01-2009, 11:09 AM

Phil at Fastlane confirms made in Germany.

volosong · #12 06-01-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

Do a search of the diesel forums for vacuum pumps. It's the small pump on the front of the timing cover...

Thanks for the info. Sounds like inexpensive insurance. Even though car is 25-years old, it only has 111k on the clock. Couple minor dings here and there, but overall, pretty much in "brand-new" condition.

One small fingernail sized clear coat flake on the hood, otherwise paint is great. Interior upholstery pretty much new condition, no cracks on the dash.

I'm thinking of moving my 8-hole 15x7 rims from my 300CE to the 190D. With the correct tire size, they fit fine, (according to the specs). But, the 15-hole 14" chrome pancake rims don't look to bad on the W201 with its lines. Tires for the smaller rim are certainly less expensive and car doesn't ride too bad as is. I'll check more about the vacuum pump.

JonL · #13 06-01-2009, 12:05 PM

The picture in post 10 is the Pierburg made in Germany pump, same one I put in my car. Right now on eBay there are a couple of the Chinese pumps being offered, they look IDENTICAL to the German pump except for the label. They look good... but who knows? There is also currently an auction for a German pump brand new by a private party. It may be worth watching. (I have no affiliation with any of these sources.)

biopete · #14 06-02-2009, 01:20 AM

I looked at the car today. It drove good and seats were comfy but that was about it. Volosong, how much was your seller asking? Mine wouldn't go less than 2500.00. But I did not feel it. All the jack points had rust. One had been repaired with rubber compound. Another needed to be. Odo not working at 212,000. Sunroof would not open even though the motor would run. The passeger side windows would not roll down. Can't take that in TN heat. The AC was inoperable. That was expected but the side vents would not open or blow air at all. And that means no heat out of them since the center vents only blow fresh air if I'm not mistaken. The cruise did not work. The paint was a faded red but new hood was shiny red. The sunroof button and antenna button had all been pushed hard into the dash so you could not get at them barely.

The engine, tranny worked good though. The power locks worked but it was really hard to pull drivers side lock up and down. It drove fine and shifted good and down shifted when I stepped on it. it seemed like good reliable transportation. One thing was you could smell coolant under the hood and he said it "leaked" about 1/2 gallon a year. The engine did not smoke. Also , there were no maintenance records whatsoever. And the tires would need replacing in winter to be safe even in the mild mid TN winters. That one windshield wiper was weird.

So all in all, I said i could not pay more than 1250 for it. Am i wrong here? I mean for for 2500.00 I'd need at least the odo and windows and sunroof to work and have some maintenance records and less rust and confirmed 35 mpg. It was a nice fellow and I explained it nicely and understandably it was probably not worth it for him to take that.

When i got back in my W123 it felt so much more balanced and whole. Not sure what the deal is with MB but they seem to make everything fall apart around the power train. It is annoying. VWs are not nearly as bad. Maybe also, the lighter weight of the VW along with its basic finishing make you expect less. I think it is more that that though. Something about getting into a car where the dash -- buttons, odometer, heater controls, lights, antenna, everything all are functional even after 200,000 miles and never broke in the first place that makes you feel good. Like my wife's 98 TDI. Maybe i need a 90s MB? But the one's I've seen look just like the older ones inside. do they have the same problems?

volosong · #15 06-02-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biopete

I looked at the car today. It drove good and seats were comfy but that was about it. Volosong, how much was your seller asking? Mine wouldn't go less than 2500.00...

I purchased my 190D 2.2 5-spd from my mechanic. The famous Enrique of Mr. M.B. Motors fame. This car was to be his retirement car for when he finally closes up shop, or sells out to his helper. He purchased it from the original owner who purchased the car in SoCal. Funny thing though...it spent about nine or ten years of its life in Auckland, then came back to SoCal.

Enrique replaced a bunch of stuff on the car that needed attention, such as the radiator, sun visors, and who knows what else. Being his own car, I know he fixed whatever needed fixing. Also, it has been said to never purchase a Mercedes without service records. This one has records from day-1, as recorded in the little maintenance booklet.

Enrique went to the AAA the other week and paid the insurance on his fleet. He realized that he has too many cars and it is financial drain on him. He knows that I admired this car, specifically it being a stick shift diesel, so he offered me first crack at purchasing it. He asked 5,000 for it...and I agreed to pay that amount if he would fix a few more little, minor things on it. He only owned it for about two months.

From what you say about this car you are looking at, I can't recommend it. If it is so "trashed" on its interior and exterior, and he didn't bother to fix all those little things you can see...what makes you think he took proper care of the engine and drivetrain that one cannot see? Lacking any type of records...this car is a junker and you were generous to offer 1250.

Keep looking. There are still some good, well maintained cars out there. When you find another, it will be obvious if the owner took pride in taking care of his/her car. I know I paid top dog for mine, but the peace-of-mind about the mechanics and the physical condition makes it worth the couple extra grand that I paid. I'm looking at dumping some money into the car because I want to...not because I have to.

Bottom line...no records...keep looking.