Oil Filter Change Interval w/Long Drain Intervals - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shertex · #1 06-05-2009, 06:36 AM

Yes, yes...I've done searches, read lots of oil threads...

I'm convinced of the merits of long drain intervals, have had oil analysis done, etc., etc... But am I correct that virtually NO ONE is recommending long intervals between filter changes? That is, IF you go for a long drain interval with a good synthetic (say 10,000 miles or longer), you should still stick with the MB recommended filter change at 5,000? Does anyone wish to make the case that you can let the filter go longer than 5,000?

75Sv1 · #2 06-05-2009, 07:26 AM

I think the duration of an oil filter depends on its quality and the condition of the engine. Also, the type of driving and enviromental conditions. I trust NAPA (WIX) filters to 7,500 miles. I think Mobil 1 filters to about 10K. Puralators can be on par with WIX. I hear good things about the new Amsiol filters. I haven't made a decision on my 240D as to how far I will run the oil and filter. I only have 1K on this oil change and its an AutoRX flush. So far the oil looks clean. THe oil that came out was black. I did use NAPA 15W-40. I have a rinse cycle of 3K and another flush and rinse of 3K each for the Auto RX. After that and see if any oil leaks, then I'll be looking at synthetic oils.
Tom

atomix8 · #3 06-05-2009, 07:40 AM

I'm a fan of long drain intervals for some vehicles, but my understanding from Used Oil Analysis (UOA) of the 616/617 engines (240d/300d...the old guys) was that they soot loaded the oil too much and you had to run a factory (3k-4k) drain interval.

I'm happy to hear 75S is running 1k with clear oil...but also shocked, my 240d runs relatively clean (smokes only on real hard throttle) but I get dirty oil right after a change.

The 601/2/3's and especially the 606 are a different story and are the ones where you can do a longer OCI because you're not fighting soot.

WD8CDH · #4 06-05-2009, 08:13 AM

I have not had excessive soot loading on my 617 motors with Rotella synthetic at 7500 miles per UOA. I haven't tried to stretch past that point yet because that point was the end of fall and I didn't want to hold off the oil change to the middle of the winter.

tangofox007 · #5 06-05-2009, 08:53 AM

I have cut open dozens of used oil filters and have never seen one that was any where close to "capacity." And the only ones that came anywhere close were on high mileage engines that had just been switched to synthetic oil.

Diesel911 · #6 06-05-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

I have cut open dozens of used oil filters and have never seen one that was any where close to "capacity." And the only ones that came anywhere close were on high mileage engines that had just been switched to synthetic oil.

I think that is because of the Nominal Micron level the available filters.
Data concerning the Full Flow Section. Purolator 35 (my data from their Email),(the rest of the data from DeliveryValve) WIX 32, Mann 27, Fram 25, Mahle 22, Baldwin 18.
It would take something extremely bad happening in an Engine or some serious neglect to plug up a filter.
I do not think any of the deal with the finer particles of soot.

If you read some atricles on By-pass Oil filtration you will find that all of the Full Flow Oil filter pass a lot of wear causing particles.

They make a "fleece" filter for the newer Mercedes that is supposed to be used with extended Oil changes.

From what I have read concerning extended Oil changes on commercial vehicles they are using ad on Bypass Oil filters to achieve it and the are doing the Oil analysis also to detect other Engine problems like bearings going out and Coolent contamination.
So for Commercial use the extend Oil change with Oil analysis is cost effective.

For my Car the cost of an Oil analysis is greater then the cost of an Oil change so it is more cost effective for me to change the Oil.
So unless I just get curious or I believe something is going on in the Engine I will not be doing any Oil analysis.
Even though I have a bypass Oil Filter on my car I am not attempting an extended Oil change.

Jeremy5848 · #7 06-05-2009, 12:15 PM

My '96 E300D (W210, OM606NA) doesn't get driven a lot (about 8,000 miles a year) so I change the oil (Mobil-1 5W-40) and filter (Bosch, Hengst, Mann, whatever FastLane happens to have) once a year. The George Murphy oil tests show very low levels of contaminants including soot. This is to be expected, of course, since the car and its original engine have only 261,000 miles on them.

The OM606NA is not known for either high power or best fuel economy (the turbo version is better) but we just returned from a short trip, got 29 MPG at 65 MPH with a 17 foot canoe atop the car. Additionally, wind effects (as felt in the steering/handling) were less on the 210 than on previous cars, Benz and non-Benz, that have carried this canoe. A satisfying experience.

Jeremy

75Sv1 · #8 06-05-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomix8

I'm a fan of long drain intervals for some vehicles, but my understanding from Used Oil Analysis (UOA) of the 616/617 engines (240d/300d...the old guys) was that they soot loaded the oil too much and you had to run a factory (3k-4k) drain interval.

I'm happy to hear 75S is running 1k with clear oil...but also shocked, my 240d runs relatively clean (smokes only on real hard throttle) but I get dirty oil right after a change.

The 601/2/3's and especially the 606 are a different story and are the ones where you can do a longer OCI because you're not fighting soot.

I did check during lunch. It is getting black. I am on a rinse cycle. Although, I do expect a deisel to get dirtier sooner than a gasser engine.
Tom

babymog · #9 06-05-2009, 06:39 PM

It will be black almost instantly, even in a 60x. There is about a half-quart of the black stuff in your oil cooler and other places when you change your fluid, will make your oil look somewhat dirty at first start.

atomix8 · #10 06-06-2009, 12:50 PM

After 300 miles on my fresh change of Rotella 15w40, it's arguably lighter than the dark as night stuff that drained out after 3,000 miles...including 2 quarts of make up oil. I'm sure at my next fill up when I check oil it will be dark as night though!

WD8CDH, you have me thinking about trying a longer drain interval on Rotella Syn. A used oil analysis is always interesting, especially when I have no idea about the mileage of the motor.

..if only changing oil on the 616 wasn't the quickest and easiest of any car I've ever owned...and the W123 has so many great spots to rest your tools and your beer under the hood...

t walgamuth · #11 06-06-2009, 01:29 PM

Changing the filter more often than the filter seems like a false economy to me.

rocketboy52 · #12 06-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I did check during lunch. It is getting black. I am on a rinse cycle. Although, I do expect a deisel to get dirtier sooner than a gasser engine.
Tom

I'm new to diesel, and I'm amazed at how black the oil is, and how hard it is to clean the oil collection bin after a diesel oil change. What is this "rinse cycle" you are doing and are there any good threads you can point me to learn about this?

Also, what synthetic is everyone that is doing long change intervals advocating? A co-worker with a Dodge cummins, swears by Amsoil, any other fans out there that believe it is work the price and long life claims?

Diesel911 · #13 06-06-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

I think the duration of an oil filter depends on its quality and the condition of the engine. Also, the type of driving and enviromental conditions. I trust NAPA (WIX) filters to 7,500 miles. I think Mobil 1 filters to about 10K. Puralators can be on par with WIX. I hear good things about the new Amsiol filters. I haven't made a decision on my 240D as to how far I will run the oil and filter. I only have 1K on this oil change and its an AutoRX flush. So far the oil looks clean. THe oil that came out was black. I did use NAPA 15W-40. I have a rinse cycle of 3K and another flush and rinse of 3K each for the Auto RX. After that and see if any oil leaks, then I'll be looking at synthetic oils.
Tom

It depends on the year and engine.
On the 617.952s and engines that use the same filter (the full flow section of the filters); the WIX has a 32 Nominal Micron filtration rating and the Purolator is slightly worse at 35 Nominal Microns (per their Email answer to my question).
The 2 filters that filter out smaller particles (again in the full flow section) are the Baldwin P-102 at 18 Nominal Microns and the Mahle at 22 Nominal Microns.
The smaller the Nominal Micron Number the better the filtration.
WIX has a site where you can look up the WIX filter and the have the Filtration Rating of their filters listed for most of their filters.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp

75Sv1 · #14 06-08-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

It will be black almost instantly, even in a 60x. There is about a half-quart of the black stuff in your oil cooler and other places when you change your fluid, will make your oil look somewhat dirty at first start.

This was after a R&R. I pulled the oil cooler and put new oil lines to it. I also, took off the oil filter housing and put on a new housing to block gasket. Yes, my oil was black as coal, then. Nasty stuff.
As far as rinse, I am using AutoRX. It is an oil 'additive'. It is suppose to slowly clean your engine out. You can check 'Bob is The Oil Guy' forum for reviews. It is suppose to clean out varnish and even clean the compression rings.
As far as synthetic oils, Amsoil has a good reputation. I have used sone of their products. I haven't used them enough to state good or bad or indifferent. They do have an extensive line. I have used Amaco Ulimate( way back in the 80s), Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1, Torco (transmission 2000 Ford Contour SVT), Shaffer, Pennzoil, Amsoil and Royal Purple (240D PS Pump). Most of these for engien oil was for a '96 Ford Contour and the '00 STV. I am a bit new to diesel motors, so I can directly comment on oils for diesel motors.
Having said that, first make sure you oil is diesel rated. Also, there are different diesel oil ratings. The newer diesel, ie MB Blue Tech and other emmision controlled, need and oil with less zinc in it. The zinc will mess up the sensors and filters. Our older diesels can use the zinc. Some motor heads will use diesel rated oil in their push rod engines, because it contains zinc. I think the rating you will need to look for is CH4 or something like that. Amsoil, Mobil 1, Shaffer 9000 should have oil rated for that. Also, Valvoiline (Also NAPA brand), Shell Rotella (semi-synthetic ??) amongst others.
There is a lot of debate as to true synthetic or not. Basically, most purist consider a true synthetic as a polyester derivative. Also, a non-true (for lack of a better word) synthetic as a hydrocracked or ultra refined dino oil derivative. Amsoil, Mobil 1 (used to be, but not sure now), Neo, I think ELF and Total, also the German made Castrol Syntec are true synthetic. I know Pennzoil, Castrol, Shell Rotella are hydrocracked. I haven't noticed any difference in performance. My Ford Contours like Pennzoil Platinum and Castrol Syntech. Also, the Shaffer 7000 (synthetic blend) ran well.
Tom

bobodaclown · #15 06-08-2009, 11:03 PM

Personally I'm using Rotella Syn 5W40. Changing it out every 5K with a new filter. I'm happy with it.