hey all....I won't completely launch into my glorious introduction (complete with song and dance) and cryptic references to my former e-persona....but this isn't the first time that I've conversed with many of you silly dieselheads (and open forum goobers). Please humor me and my cantankerous 240d and kindly offer any suggestions.....


I've searched/tested/tried all that my feeble little mind can handle.....and I'm about ready to sell this blasted thing. As you can see in my signature, it's a 1981 240d - automatic - 152,000 miles. The car has always been in southeast PA and it's 85-90 degrees here right now.

Backstory....I'd say 90% of the fuel I've put in this beast has been regular petro diesel....but I think a bad batch of biodiesel set this off (bought from a questionable fuel pump)....and now I'm fighting some sort of fuel delivery problem. Right after I bought the car, I was plugging filters at an alarming rate on regular diesel but that symptom had mostly subsided (until now). So there you go....I posted/stated my car type and model and I'm not running veggie oil....so the unwritten forum rule is that you must help me now


1. About a month ago - after running essentially 6-7 gallons of B100 thru my car (added to half-tank of diesel)...it started shutting off at idle on my 30 mile commute home. I was always able to quickly restart and go - I thought it was just a plugged filter - and I made the drive home (I didn't have any spin-on filters in the car). I changed the primary and secondary filters at home - no change...it still would shut off at idle. The car begin to start with increasing difficulty.

2. Suspecting the biodiesel (tons of crud in both filters) I drained the contents back at the tank (5-6 gallons of bio)....and fuel was flowing freely, so I didn't think the tank strainer was clogged. I dumped 2-3 gallons of fresh petro diesel in the tank, primed it and it started....but still stalled @ idle. I thought I might just have some air bubbles in the lines due to draining it and for some reason....thought it would be a good idea to take it to a diesel station and fill it up. I drove it +/- 6 miles to the pump (kept my foot on the accelerator @ idle). At the diesel pump - it died and could NOT be restarted.

3. I noticed my primer pump was leaking (old knob style - replaced by me in 2007)....so I ordered a new bosch one and replaced it - thinking I was sucking in air. Replaced the 5 year old battery with a new bosch one (killed the old battery with all these hard starts)......and still.....shutting off at idle. I was able to get it back home via my now patented 'rev it like a crazy mofo in neutral with your left foot on the brake whilst ignoring all the curious onlookers' maneuver. Awesome.

Note: The starter is spinning fine and I'm always able to start the car by spraying WD40 down the intake and it will continue to run as long as my foot is on the accelerator. The car will not easily restart without the assistance of WD40 though and as SOON as I let the RPM's drop anywhere near what feels to be idle (no tach gauge in this 240d), it dies. Naturally I fiddled with the idle knob and settings out on the throttle linkage too.....it's not that.

4. Cracked each injector line and cranked.....and fuel is weeping out @ each injector. Pulled injectors and hard lines to see if clogged/obnoxiously dirty (not too bad) and soaked all 4 in carb cleaner and lightly brushed off and reinstalled. Cleaned banjo bolts @ main filter and IP and all the connecting lines - none were completely clogged (but definately with crud). Took off air filter housing and tried to start - nothing. Took off fuel filler cap to unlock potential vacuum, nothing. No noticeable fuel leaks or bad fuel lines. All lines are rubber or hazy amber.....so I can't see if bubbles are in the lines? I read the thread about the 603 engine shutting off at idle and the omniscient Brain C thinks air bubbles are getting thru...not sure if that's the case here. It's strange that it would coincide with a bad batch of bio and happen all at once though...but maybe not.

5. Blew out supply/return lines to tank with compressed air....thinking return line might be blocked. No help. Bypassed fuel tank and tried starting with clean fuel in 1 gal jug with supply/return lines...nothing.


So basically - I don't know where to turn? I know diesels needs fuel, air and heat/compression to work.....and fuel is getting to the injectors, it's 90 degrees here and poor compression doesn't happen all at once and my glowplugs are less than a year old (and new battery which is on a trickle charger) and the air filter is off? I

I'm also doing this troubleshooting myself....so the car isn't continually running on wd40 (meaning - I spray some down - go start and then keep it running by pressing the pedal) - so I *think* fuel is being delivered? I don't know how to rule out the IP or fuel pump but again - I'm getting fuel at the injectors. I also tested my fuel shutoff valve and it holds a vacuum....and it's also been replaced within the last 2 years too.


long story and waaaay too many words, I know - but hopefully I've explained myself thoroughly....and I'd be forever indebted for any of the forum's sage advice.

oh and I hate Swamp Yankee.

Silly question have you actually checked to make sure you gps are getting power? Just because they are less than a year old does not mean they cannot die.

not silly at all....

no, actually...I haven't. I do remember checking the strip fuse in an act of frustration....but I didn't specifically check the voltage. I mean, my glow plug light is working fine and like I mentioned - I replaced the plugs this past winter (with bosch not autolite or whatever those crappy ones are).

would bad plugs kill it at idle though?

thanks for reading my wordy mcword post too....I almost hate myself for typing all that out.

You also posted all the troubleshooting you've already done and used punctuation, capitalization, and proper spelling. I think I like you already

Ideas:

Crud in fuel system reducing but not eliminating fuel flow. Solution: Diesel Purge.

Sucking air. This would have to be happening in the small portion of the lines that were still in use when you bypassed the fuel tank. This can be checked by adding pressure to the fuel lines and looking for a leak, but it's pretty easy to just go ahead and replace the rubber lines. If they are original it's probably a good idea.

Flaw in the vacuum system introducing vacuum to the shutoff valve when it's not supposed to. I've only heard of it happening once, but it is possible. Remove and plug the line to the shutoff and see if symptoms continue.

Quote:

oh and I hate Swamp Yankee.

I'm just not going to touch that one.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

To be honest with you I don't know but you have checked literally everything I can think of so was throwing out my best wild guess. Or have you checked your linkage to make sure it is not twisted or in need of adjustment?

I really think this is my best bet at this point...just replace them all. It's not like I'm throwing tons of money at the problem and I probably have 20' of that 5/16" hose coiled up in my trunk.

good suggestion...I forgot to mention that one. I pulled the line off the fuel shutoff valve and tried to start....no go. I can't remember if I plugged the line though...or just pulled it off?


haha....all great suggestions, thanks Skippy....and you even take the high road on fellow member bashing?

I can understand you wanting to push it off a cliff.
Appears to me to be a fuel delivery problem.
Sounds like you've done quite a bit already, yet pull the injectors and have them tested.
While they're out do a compression test.
I'm pulling at straws too.
Good luck.

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83 SD

84 CD

thanks toomany....and yes, the ominous cliff is looming.

I know - I wish I would have taken the injectors to get the spray pattern tested when I had them out....but I was in a rush to get this thing started and I didn't think they looked too bad at the time.

along the bad injector idea.....after I burn up that initial small shot of WD40 in the intake and then idle for 5-10 minutes...isn't (diesel) fuel flowing thru the injectors okay then? I would think if the pattern was bad or if clogged....it would die immediately after the WD40 burns up.

(I'm not saying that to question your suggestion.....I really don't know). This is the first time I've had to resort to the WD40 in the intake method...but from what I've read, other people have had to continually spray to keep the thing running?

Perhaps you should change your oil, 240 Joe? The two of you have a similar verbose style. Wild guess, though I don't remember swamp yankee battling it out.

You do realize that maintaining multiple accounts is a no-no, right?

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1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

haha...you've just offended me on the deepest of levels. seriously - why don't you just call me mattsd300 or skid row joe too? Or Rich C?


and yes - I pm'd Brian C and he's deactivated my old account.


Do you have any advice for me or are you still too busy chasing that waitress around?

I think you already have good advice to roll on; I was just taking a wild stab at a guess and didn't mean to offend. I'm sure I'll find out soon enough.

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1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

I would think too, but maybe once warm and running it'll catch for a while.

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83 SD

84 CD

Well since it stalls out at low idle hot I would forget about the glow plugs totally for now. They have no bearing on that problem. The apparently hard to start may also be just inadaquate fuel. You have tried to start the engine without wd 40 with the pedal pressed down a little?

Since it is a 240 d the fuel amount available at idle and starting is adjustable on the dash. I assume you know this?You also loosened up a lot of junk by the introduction of bio fuel awhile ago perhaps? Some of this junk may have even made it through the filters. Or has built up in the lift pump even.

If so at idle type speeds the lift pump may be outputting next to nothing pressure wise. Disconnect the output and crank the engine. Does fuel flow well? Read in the archives how much you should see in a certain amount of time.

Yeah - I've tried starting w/o wd40. Occasionally it will fire...but only after reeeeally long cranks. Oh and I forget to mention that the valves were adjusted about 3000 miles ago too.

another great suggestion (checking the lift pump) - I remember reading Brian C/Kerry suggesting the same thing.....something like 2-3 oz of fuel in 15 seconds of cranking.

I'll try that tonight....thanks.

I think this is my plan of attack.

1. test lift pump
2. run diesel purge (I'll guess I must start with wd40 though)
3. replace all fuel lines (again)

does anybody have a linky to those clear plastic fuel lines? I know fastlane doesn't carry them and I vaguely recall member 'Tangofox' linking me to another site eons ago. If not, I'll just cut the nylon at the end of the hose barb and put 5/16" rubber over it but I'd really like to see thru for bubblelicious viewing purposes.

the clear plastic lines are dealer item only. as you say, rubber will work.

now if you want to keep it Concourse condition........ ya gotta pay

Charlie

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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

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