220D questions from a newbie
 

I've been looking at a number of 300SD's from the mid 80's, but a 220D has piqued my interest. I know even less about this car than the 300's.

Is it roughly the same size as a 300D? Same platform I think?
Turbo? I'm thinking not.
Butt slow I'll bet, or maybe not with a 4 spd.
Could this car be daily driver realistically?

Any and all opinions welcome, and thanks for your help!

http://flagstaff.craigslist.org/cto/1347995579.html

I'm waiting for more info from the seller. Was AC common on this vintage and how repairable is it? Every 300 I've looked at has and problematic AC.

I'm sorta thinking one like this might be easier to cut your teeth on, simpler to work on, fewer luxury gizmos to fail etc. I'm not a mechanic but can turn a wrench with guidance.

Nobody?

This is a fine well engineered car. Weak on rustproofing and pretty slow. I'll talk more about it later. Now is a bad time to get lots of responses. Folks are out working on their benzes.

Sorry for the impatience. Anything you can add later is appreciated. Owner says no rust. Normal for AZ cars and says that patience is required on hills..Hopefully I'll get more pix and info later.

I've never owned one of these, but this is the kind of vehicle I've been looking for - decently low mileage, manual windows, manual tranny, manual a/c control, the more manual the better. Elegance in simplicity. I've owned an 84 300D and an 84 300SD for a total of about 9 years now. I love the 300SD, but really want something simpler for a daily driver.

Check for rust in the floorboards, in the trunk, battery deck, etc. - pull the carpets up and look. Check the rubber in the suspension, listen for creaks and groans. Take it to a mechanic if you think it needs a full going over to see what will be needed if you buy it.

These cars did have a/c. i'd expect it to be standard. Its going to be smaller than a 300SD. Manual would be faster than an automatic, but still it's not going to be doing 70 up a grade. These cars were the standard for taxi's for years in Europe, so very dependable daily drivers. Just need to be maintained like any other classic MB diesel. Mileage is low enough to last a long, long time.

Good luck if you buy it!

I've owned a 1973 220D. It was my first Diesel. It had PS, AT and A/C. Yes, you had to be a patient driver. In reward for your patience, you got a very dependable driver. If I still had my 220D, I would consider updating the glow plug system. It took a long time to get the original glow plugs hot.

The A/C was manual and while not troublefree, it wasn't a big pain either, much less that my subsequent MBs. The original A/C was R12 - you might want to see if this particular car has been upgraded to R134a.

Good luck!

these cars are nice and pretty fun to own.

I still haven't seen the car, the owner is out of town. Sometime this week. I was reading history page today and the 220D was described as being "dangerously slow" in takeoffs. On another page, a guy said his manual 220D was faster off the line than his 300SD.....Any comments?
Also, the guy has quite nicely offered to meet me half way as the car is 75 miles from here, but I really want to start it from cold. Is this as critical as I'm lead to believe?

I drove a 220D auto and it was slow, but not "dangerously slow". I own a 76 300D which is the same body style but with a 5cyl engine. Its not but it keeps up just fine in traffic.

Early 300sd's were slow off the line, so I can believe it. But the 300SD will be ahead from 20mph onwards. The 220D has a top speed around 80mph but the 300SD tops out at 105.

IMO there is really no comparison between the 2 cars. I find humor in the slowness.

Flagstaff is almost 7k feet above sea level, so it would be very slow indeed. I'd venture to guess, that most 220Ds don't have air. In AZ an old car with working air is a great selling feature, so since the ad makes no mention of it, I bet it doesn't have working A/C.

Yeah, I feel the same way about the ac. Not likely in that erea unless in the south or someplace hot.

They're slow but if you take it into consideration and adjust your driving habits accordingly its ok. I had a 72 220. nice car.

I have a '70 220D that I use as my daily driver. Yes, they are dangerously slow if you're pulling out onto the highway and haven't had a chance to get it up to speed. They have no pickup to speak off, and I have to shift down to 2nd and go 20mph to go up a hill on my way home (left turn across traffic, so I'm doing 10mph max before I tackle the hill). It was a huge adjustment from the BMW X5 4.4 that I drove before, but I've changed my driving style and really love the 220D.

They're smaller than the 300s, and not as nice inside. 220Ds are very proletarian cars, unlike most Benzes.

I would definitely insist on starting it from cold.

Flagstaff gets cold in the winter (snow/ice) and the heater better work.

Phoenix is 140 miles south, and you better have A/C. 115deg in the summer.

Arizona Does use salt on the roads, so check it out well for rust. never know where that 220 has been it whole life.

Charlie

how much is the seller asking?

Seller sent me some additional information but is still out of town so I haven't seen it yet. Here's what he said:

"he lights and signals work fine, the driver side headlamp is a bit
dim, but the "brights" aren't super intense so I drive it with the
high beams on. Manual windows (I think a plus), red leather is pretty
good in the back, but if I was going to keep the car I would get some
seat covers for the front. I've never noticed an oil leak and it only
smokes when you fire it up, but after it has been running for 15 min
it doesn't smoke at all. Sometimes when I've pushed it hard, like
going up the hill from Sedona to Flag, I've noticed a plume or two,
but it really runs as clean or cleaner than most diesel pickups. I'm
heading out to camp for the night, but I'll get the interior pics as
soon as I get back. Think about a time next week when you are
available to meet up, I'm happy to meet half way. Thanks for your
interest."

In a previous email he claims no rust. Also claims he can refer me to the previous owner, a diesel mechanic who maintained it well...Hasn't mentioned the AC or the car's history, but if it's an AZ car I'll bet it's equipped. I'm an AZ native and well aware of the elevation and temp. differences between Flagstaff and Phx. I'm about half way in between them, and my temps are much closer to those in Phx. I'd really like AC if possible for a daily driver. My experience with used cars regardless of their make in Flagstaff is that when the AC craps out people tend to forget about it, because Flagstaff only has about 2 weeks of summer anyhow.

He's asking 2900. I readily admit to being clueless about the car's even approximate value if it's in good shape. I missed a rust free 82 300SD with good maintenance records last month at 2600, if that's any clue.

$2900 is too much for the 220D. Even with the A/C working it isn't worth $2000. The A/C on that engine is actually a drawback. The old style York compressors draw so much power from the engine they are just about impossible to keep up with in-town traffic and forget about climbing hills. If they've changed to a Sanden or other rotary style compressors it's much better.

For $2900 you can get an '80's or '90's diesel Benz which will be of a higher build quality. Before anyone gets defensive regarding the characteristics let me say, I own a 1972 250C, a 1973 280, a 1974 280C and a 1985 500SEL and although I prefer my '70's W114 bodies there is no comparison to the '85 W126 as far as build quality.

I owned a 1973 220D for 10 years and loved the car. It still would give me trouble starting in the wintertime even here in Tucson. I had a block heater for those mornings when I knew it would be cold. The only time it ever left me stranded was on a cold winter day, 20 F with the wind blowing about 20 miles an hour straight through the radiator.

2900 is a lot. if there is no rust at all, the price is not to bad, if everything works. Are all the A/C parts there?

i second that. $2900 is too much. i was thinking $1200, seriously

Based on the turbo 300D's I've seen for sale in the past couple of days ($1700, 1800, and one at $8100), I'm thinking a 220D with no air is worth well below $2000.

With air and very, very little rust I'd pay $1000 tops. Too many things WILL require fixing on this car in just a matter of weeks or months to pay much more than that.

Thanks for all the info. I still haven't heard from the guy. What i found attractive about this model is it's simplicity. My teenage son is really interested in diesel classics and it seemed that this would be a good place to start. I've looked at several 300SD's and what I'm seeing is either cars that are good mechanically but have lots of physical issues or cars that smoke and leak and look really nice. There seems to be SO much in the way of bells and whistles that can go wrong on an SD that it may be an overwhelming project. Is the 300D a simpler car? I'm not seeing a lot of them compared to SD's. I don't know that the kid and I will become Merc hobbyists, I'm a rancher, not a mechanic and he needs the car to be a daily driver too. I'm also noticing that prices seem really high on everything. Are the WVO guys driving up asking prices? I'm going up to Flag tomorrow to look at a 300SD that has "light rust at the jack points" and paint issues on the hood but sounds like it's mechanically well taken care of. Valve adjustment, new filters, glow plugs and updated gloplug controller or whatever you call it, no leaks, etc. Asking price is 1800, the lowest price I've seen so far.

It really depends what you are looking for, the 220D is very much a classic and is probably only practical for use around town. The 300D is simpler than the 300SD, but is relatively modern and capable of highway use. Do not look for the cheapest car you can find, make sure you understand what needs to be repaired prior to buying anything.

I think the price is high for this vehicle. And unless it has a brand new refurbed AC with a newer type of compressor and still using R12 I doubt the A/C would be worth a damm sourth of Flag. The fact that it's a manual tranny is nice but I'd need to know a lot more abou it before I'd go for it.

Don't agree withe MIKED about the build quality though. I think everything they made from hte 60's to the end of the 126 was of the same high quality standard, though rust proofing may vary. And that could be an issue in a car from Flag.

- Peter.

it's still on craigslist - did you see it / drive it? what did you think?

I recently bought a 73 220D. I'm no MB diesel expert or even good enough to be called an enthusiast. Consider these comments from a rank amateur.

Very fun to drive. The ride is much softer (in a good way) than my '87 TD. Pretty quick from 0-12 mph, then the world catches up and passes you by. Easy to work on in that the car is simple. (I just spent a weekend pulling parts of a car going to the junkyard.) But changing belts is a PITA. If the paint job is good, it'll be a head turner.

As to price, it's all relative.

Use the thread search function and you will see that there were a couple very detailed threads about the w115 with OM 615 engine, akia 220D. Most were MT and few had air, tho it was available.

Mine is so strong it has started in the summer w/o GPs.