FIAT X-19 with 3 cylinder caterpillar diesel - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ImBroke · #46 09-04-2009, 05:46 PM

My friend who worked on Yugos said they were meant to be run on Premium fuel. Americans wouldn't dare pay for expensive gas for a cheap car, so the engines destroyed themselves. I can't vouch for the truth behind the statements, but that's what he said. High compression + 87 octane = not happy engines.

Brandon_SLC · #47 09-04-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa 75

This quote was originally applied to Renaults but works here too: "these cars worked okay in Europe."

Seriously, all the Italian and French econoboxes who got such a bad reputation in the United States were great cars in Europe.

I almost said something simmilar. There are still lots of Ritmos running around in Europe.

Some possible reasons:
Relative to income levels Fiats were cheap for Americans, so many considered them disposable cars.

Europeans tend to drive less.

There are more people who know how to work on them in Europe, and some of those mechanics don't charge very much. Many Americans had no choice but to have their Fiats repaired at the dealer which is very expensive.

I also have a theory that the reason so many Mercedes survived in the US is because the owners have so much invested in them.

husk · #48 09-18-2009, 01:48 AM

I just took delivery of the fiat this morning, all in all it has pretty good power. Much more pep than expected. I was even able to take it on the freeway and give it a good run. Currently the car is at the body shop probably going to get a full makeover. I always thought these cars were pretty good looking. The body is kind of rusty (more than I expected) I was toying with the thought of scrapping the car and putting this motor in my Fiat Topolino (17 unuseable hp) but I think I am going to go the resto route with the x1/9 (barring any major suprises during the prep process). Pictures to follow sometime in the next week.

#49 09-18-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa 75

This quote was originally applied to Renaults but works here too: "these cars worked okay in Europe."

Seriously, all the Italian and French econoboxes who got such a bad reputation in the United States were great cars in Europe.

I'm afraid that I'm ready to take issue with this thinking, and my opinion is based on first hand, IN EUROPE experience.

I went to Germany in April of 1969 as a young GI. I was quickly found out to be a car guy and everyone brought their cars to me, or usually me TO THEIR CARS to fix. Most of these cars were ones that GI's could afford. That means that they were either old cars of various makes, or new Fiats. The reason is that Fiats were FILTHY cheap. They were little more than half the cost of a VW Beetle.

I knew a number of people who bought brand new Fiat 850's and 1250's. Of those people they ALL had trouble, and some of them didn't even manage to make it to the end of the 10,000 kilometer warranty (does a 10,000 kilometer warranty raise any flags with you?) without blowing an engine or some other major malady. The 1250 was better than the 850, but it was still S#!t. Also this was not limited to the American GI's having trouble with them, my landlord and a few of his neighbors that I knew had the same problems.

All that said, BELIEVE ME, Fiats are no better in Europe than they are in the US. How Fiat has stayed in business is completely beyond me. Maybe it's because they are so much less expensive than most anything else that can be bought, the owners can't help themselves and never stop to add up repair costs to come up with a true Total Cost of Ownership.

The Yugo was a car that resulted from them purchasing the Fiat 1250 tooling. Running premium fuel to make one live, sounds preposterous to me. There's nothing short of an act of God that would make a Fiat 1250 trouble free.

I got lots of troubleshooting and wrenching experience on European cars, mostly on Fiats. I think it's safe to say that this is because it was largely Fiats that were broken all the time.

The good news about this period of my life is that one day in early Summer of 1969, a fellow GI brought me his late fifties six cylinder Mercedes sedan with a dead miss. I opened the hood of that car and fell in love! It turned out to be a burned valve. I ended up pulling the head and taking it to the local Comrade machine shop for a valve job and then put it all back together. What a joy of a job that was as compared to American sixes and V8's that I had worked on up to that point.

Another thing relevant to posts in this thread is my experience driving a BMW 2002. I only drove one once. A guy I worked with had a near new 70 model 2002 and in Spring 1971, we took turns driving and went non stop from Hanau, Germany (Frankfurt area) to Barcelona, Spain for the Spanish Grand Prix. WHAT A DRIVE!!!!!!! This was an eye opening experience that equalled the first time I opened an MB hood.

At the time I went to Germany there were very, VERY few European cars in the US. In fact there weren't very many cars from anywhere except the US. At that time you would probably have to talk to 100,000 Americans before you could find one that had even heard of a BMW automobile. As a car guy, Europe at that time in my life and in automotive evolution, was a super eye opening experience. For an American I was very early in seeing the automotive world from an International view point.

SwampYankee · #50 09-18-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husk

I just took delivery of the fiat this morning, all in all it has pretty good power. Much more pep than expected. I was even able to take it on the freeway and give it a good run. Currently the car is at the body shop probably going to get a full makeover. I always thought these cars were pretty good looking. The body is kind of rusty (more than I expected) I was toying with the thought of scrapping the car and putting this motor in my Fiat Topolino (17 unuseable hp) but I think I am going to go the resto route with the x1/9 (barring any major suprises during the prep process). Pictures to follow sometime in the next week.

Cool, look forward to it!

LUVMBDiesels · #51 09-18-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_SLC

... He showed me how each manufacturer took a different approach to making cars. To make a long story, shorter, I'll just give you his summation.

Remember, this was the early 70s.

The Toyota Corona was assembled well, from cheap parts, by people who've never exceeded 30 mph.

The BMW was assembled well, from expensive parts, by people who love to drive, but rarely drive under 30 mph.

Fiats were assembled poorly with cheap parts, by people who've never owned a car, but would all drive Ferrari's if they could.

Absolutely true!

strelnik · #52 09-18-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Nobody? I wouldn't say that. If they offered the diesel Smart in this country I would seriously consider buying one.

The Citroen 2CV had a 602cc engine with a max of 75 mph. It got 68 mpg.

strelnik · #53 09-18-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa 75

This quote was originally applied to Renaults but works here too: "these cars worked okay in Europe."

Seriously, all the Italian and French econoboxes who got such a bad reputation in the United States were great cars in Europe.

I see in your stable you own a Citroen GS. How did they run? The LNs were terrible and I wonder about the BX have heard both good and bad and comparisons to Fiat.