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83 300D camber problem
First of all, thanks to everyone here for their vast MB knowledge. I've been a lurker here for years, and have always been able to find answers to my many questions by searching... until now. Here's my situation.
My 300D front tires had terrible wear. The outside tread looked almost new, and the inside tread was worn down to the steel belts. Not good. I got new tires and immediately took it to the local Firestone for alignment. As expected, the camber was way out of whack (-1.2 and -1.1, with the range supposed to be -0.3 - 0.2), but Firestone said they can't adjust it. They said I needed to buy a camber kit. After searching here I suspected that the problem would be with the UCA bushings, but my local mechanic checked them out and said that they're in good shape. Although he thought the idler arm might need replacing. Any other thoughts? Did the Firestone guy just not know how to adjust this car? What else could be causing this unusual tire wear? I should also mention that this is a relatively recent issue. The last few sets of tires had mostly normal wear. Thanks for any help you can provide. Randy |
#2
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If you have worn front end components, then adjusting camber will be a waste of time and money. If you are unable to determine if anything is worn yourself, take your car to a trusted indy to tell you what the deal is.
Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
#3
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Thanks Scott.
I did take it to my mechanic. He looked at the front and said the parts didn't look worn (except for the idler arm -- would that cause the wear I described?). I guess my question is more along the lines of if the camber can be adjusted at all. The Firestone tech seemed to be under the impression that the 300D didn't have a way to adjust the camber, unless you put in a custom camber kit. But that can't be right. Can it? |
#4
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When mine had the same problem it was the Lower Control Arm Bushings that were shot.
And, as previously stated you cannot get a lasting alignment with worn parts. I also do not think that you can see enough of the Lower Control Arm Busings to tell if they are no good. Both the Lower and Upper Control Arm Bushings pivot on the Elasticity of the Rubber. In the Pic below you see were the Rubber in my Lower Control Arm Bushing has sheared. It is no longer connected to the other part of the Rubber. And, you cannot see this from the outside as you are looking at the part that faces inside of the Arm (you have 2 bushing one on each end of each arm). Also there is an Bolt with an Eccentric Plate on it for adjusting the Camber that goes through the Lower Control Arm. However, it does not have much adjustment range.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel Last edited by whunter; 03-25-2010 at 04:53 PM. Reason: spelling |
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Here is what the FSM tells you concernint the Camber adjustment down by the Lower Control Arm.
Camber adjustment range of Cam Bolt at nominal center Value, minus 1 degree to posative 0 degrees 45 minutes. Camber and Caster have an effect on each other when you adjust. When you adjust Caster at the Ball Pin down by the Guide/Thrust rod. 30 minutes of Caster adjustment changes the Camber 10 minutes. Caster in the + direction = Camber in the - direction. Caster in the - direction = Camber in the + direction
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#6
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Camber is adjusted by turning the eccentric bolt that runs through the lower control arm bushing. Short answer to your question is to get all of your front end components tight, then do your alignment.
Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
#7
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Modern Tire Stores
I have found current popular brand name tire stores cannot comprehend
any motor vehicle older than maybe 1995, at best. They are heavily focused on 2000 and newer. So, 26mm socket and a breaker bar and you got camber adjustment. You can do it on the ground without even removing the wheels. Ask me how I know. I been doing this over the last week to get my alignment set up. Odd that your adjustment has changed, that makes me suspicious of lower control arm rubber bushings. But the overall thing you really need to know is that camber is way easy to change on MB 300D.
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80 300D 340K Owned 30 yrs 83 300SD 440K Owned 9 yrs - Daily Driver 150mi/day 02 Z71 Suburban 117,000 15 Toyota Prius 2600 miles 00 Harley Sportster 24k 09 Yamaha R6 03 Ninja 250 Last edited by rhodes2010; 09-27-2009 at 02:15 AM. |
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Quote:
It's almost impossible for the morons to diagnose bad LCA bushings. And, if they do, they probably don't want to change them (lot of work). |
#9
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Quote:
Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
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Thanks everyone for the information. This has been a big help.
I'm going to take a closer look under there and see if I can figure this out. I'm no stranger to DIY projects on this car, but I've studiously avoided anything to do with the front end. I'm sure I'll be back with another round of questions. Randy |
#11
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Here's an update on this situation...
My mechanic did more than look at the bushings. He raised the car up and really did try to move things around with a pry bar, and everything seemed tight (with the exception of the idler arm, which he recommended I replace). Here's a photo I took of what I think is the eccentric bolt. First, can someone verify that this is indeed the correct bolt (for the driver's side). If this is correct, and assuming I understand how these bolts work (which is a big assumption), it looks like there's plenty of adjustment available to fix my negative camber. Is that correct? Thanks again for the help. |
#12
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Quote:
You are correct..........there is more than enough adjustment to reduce the negative camber. |
#13
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Quote:
Randy |
#14
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Camber correction.
I've done my fair share of Mercedes alignments and I can see that there is some adjustment left in that cam, however, I can't tell you by looking at it weather it will be enough to get into specs, you also have to consider caster. Did your mechanic raise your car on an alignment rack with the suspension loaded? The bushings may appear ok and not falling apart but you may need the weight on them to tell if they are sagging too much. The oil on that bushing in the picture can also damage and soften the bushing. Sounds like you need to find a better place for an alignment then Firestone. I have fixed some pretty bad screw-ups from places like Firestone and Sears. The alignment guy there obviously didn't know what he was doing, most alignment machines tell how to make adjustments often times with pictures if you can't figure it out.
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#15
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Quote:
Nice first post jimbonaz. I can tell you've done some Mercedes alignments before. Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
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