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  #1  
Old 10-05-2009, 10:29 PM
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Can I rebuild this transmission? Should I?

I've searched the forums and found lots of people who have had their transmissions rebuilt, but I haven't been able to find anyone who has done it themselves.

My second SD was a mess when I bought it; interior trashed, rust issues, brake problems, etc. I've been using it for the good parts.

I have been thinking of pulling the engine and transmission out and giving them the full rebuild treatment, both so that I have good spares available for my first car, and for the learning experience.

I know I can rebuild the engine between myself and the one machine shop in town. I'm a bit scared of the auto trans though.

Is this a job doable by a home mechanic, or am I getting in over my head?

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1983 300SD 467,000 km - 473 champagnermetallic

location: 34°5' N 106°53' W (Socorro NM, USA)
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2009, 10:56 PM
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It's do-able for a dyi. The question is how capable are you. The problem I had when I did an automatic many years ago is all I had was a book. This was fine but when I got in there I really didn't know the little things to look for or at like you would a motor if you have been into a few motors. I felt like it was a foreign language. I did what the book said and it worked just fine. I dropped it on a Friday, rebuilt it on Saturday and drove it on Sunday. I was pretty proud of myself.

If there is any way you can talk with a professional that knows them or maybe he will even show you what to look for you would be a long way ahead. Not alot of people do automatics so thats why I did mine. To see if I could. Good luck. Thanks
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83 300D 227,xxx miles, sold
86 300 SDL 130,000 miles, sold
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2009, 06:44 AM
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I am about 90% finished with one for my 300D ( I lost my window of opportunity to finish/install when the starter crapped out just before my wife left for an overseas trip). It's really not that hard and no special tools are needed (however, it helps to be inventive ). The great thing about doing it yourself is then you are sure that you have installed parts that are going to last for years rather than junk that will make the thing slide past the short warranty.

Rick
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2009, 08:25 AM
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Thumbs up Go for it!

Do you kow the current condition of the transmission? Is it working OK now?

While I'm no transmission expert, I have gone through several automatics and had fine results. If the transmission has no known problems now, I think it's an excellent opportunity for you to get into it and give it a freshening up. Buy a complete rebuild kit, and be prepared to pay real close attention to every part that you remove, looking for wear, damage, etc. If you replace all of the wearables, seals, gaskets, o-rings, clutch plates, discs, etc, it should go pretty well. Make sure you're prepared to have little parts laying out in clean surroundings, have lot's of little plastic bags and a magic marker to make notes.

What I myself wouldn't consider doing, is trying to diagnose a problem(s) on a transmission that's not working properly, say one that won't shift, or that has bad slippage. I'd hate to spend all of the time to "rebuild" it, and reinstall it, just to find out I mis-diagnosed the problem, or didn't completely correct the initial cause of the problem!

Good luck, and have patience ( and a quiet place to work)!
Russ
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2009, 09:05 AM
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I somewhat disagree with Binder123's input with regard to diagnosis and failure correction. I think the causes of catastrophic failure are usually obvious (bad front pump, severely worn clutches, broken bands/struts/servos), at in least the handful of trannys I have autopsied. I am sure there are some that have valve body issues that I couldn't figure out, but with enough parts to swap in and enough time, even those can be fixed. And there's always somebody to ask...

Rick
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2009, 10:57 AM
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Exclamation

You're right, you typically can and will see the major problems like worn clutches and scored bearings. I guess I'm just cautious and would be concerned that I'm just repairing the resulting damage/wear and not the actual cause of the malfunction. I'm reminded of what happened to one of my buddies. The transmission on his Suburban lost reverse. He disassembled his 700R4, bought an overhaul kit and replaced all of the burnt out clutches, etc, and reassembled it. He overlooked the cause of the problem (a plunger bore that was tapered) and his transmission still had a weak reverse. "Frustrated" wouldn't fully describe his reaction!

Lonewolftek has an advantage in that his transmission is an "extra" that he just wants to rebuild as a spare (at least as I read it). His transmission isn't a failed unit, so just installing the parts from an overhaul kit should be an easy job that I'd encourage him to do.

That said, I'd certainly caution folks from just becoming "transmission experts" and tearing into one that has failed, unless they're well versed in the operational theories and know what specific failures and causes to look for.
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:42 AM
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how many miles do you think are on the car? (I say "do you think" because the ODO's rarely still work on these, and they are easy to swap for another lower mileage ODO...)
if it's pretty low, I doubt you need to rebuild the tranny, just do some maintenance on it, and you will be happy with the spare.
I recommend a B2 Piston kit, and a K1 Spring kit. filter, and gasket of course, and drain the TC, fill with some Redline or M1 Synthetic fluid, and put it in a plastic bag for later!
to properly rebuild a 5cylinder MB motor will cost you 3K in parts... plus machine work.
you can take them apart, and inspect them for wear, have the head refreshed, and hone and re-ring the existing pistons change the timing chains and be good unless the motor has some bottom end issues.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:52 AM
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I agree with the above. Thats what I was trying to get across. Not knowing the little things to look for and it is a bunch of work to have the results your buddy had. My guess is if the OP shows up at the local Transmission shop and infiltrates them with donuts or beer or whatever it takes they may be able to give you some tips.

I get alot of knowledge being nice and asking GOOD questions. When I did my first B2 piston I went to the dealer and asked if they had a transmission guy. They gave me his name and I walked in their shop and asked for him. He had a car on the rack and showed me exactly what I needed to do. It didn't hurt that I had trailered my MB down there and drove around the parking lot for awhile. All the MB mechanics were looking out the doors at the old iron and it broke the ice. Go for it and good luck. Thanks
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
I am about 90% finished with one for my 300D ( I lost my window of opportunity to finish/install when the starter crapped out just before my wife left for an overseas trip). It's really not that hard and no special tools are needed (however, it helps to be inventive ). The great thing about doing it yourself is then you are sure that you have installed parts that are going to last for years rather than junk that will make the thing slide past the short warranty.

Rick
Hi
Very interested in this and would love to learn how.

Can you give me an idea of what book to get and what an overhaul kit would cost?
Thanks, Joseph
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2009, 01:22 PM
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There is an ATSG manual available for the 722.3xx transmissions and an even better factory manual floating around on the internet.

The seal kit is probably $100 or less and if you need clutch discs figure another $60. I was able to find a seal kit for $50 and clutches for $35 on ebay over a period of time. Fastlane has the kit with seals and clutches for $257 and the seal kit for half that. You may not need clutches, but it's well worth it to at least inspect them and rebuild the K1 and K2 drums.

Rick
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2009, 07:25 PM
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@binder123:
The transmission (and engine) were 'working when parked', though I can't say that either was in top shape. When it ran, it ran rough, and there were issues with shift timing and quality.

@vstech: Second car in my sig. Odometer stopped at 274k, and I put 2k on it after that. No idea how much the PO drove it before I got there.

@rs899: PM sent re: 'better factory manual'


Well, it's looking like I'll have a go at the engine and transmission, once I clear some shop space! Thanks all!
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1983 300SD 467,000 km - 473 champagnermetallic

location: 34°5' N 106°53' W (Socorro NM, USA)
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs899 View Post
There is an ATSG manual available for the 722.3xx transmissions and an even better factory manual floating around on the internet.

The seal kit is probably $100 or less and if you need clutch discs figure another $60. I was able to find a seal kit for $50 and clutches for $35 on ebay over a period of time. Fastlane has the kit with seals and clutches for $257 and the seal kit for half that. You may not need clutches, but it's well worth it to at least inspect them and rebuild the K1 and K2 drums.

Rick
Hi Rick
Thanks for the response. I'm really starting from scratch. What does ATSG stand for & where can they be found. Would you happen to know the title of the factory manual? Paper or CD?

Are there parts worth picking up from the junk yard? Do the valve bodies cause much grief?

All information appreciated!

Joseph
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:32 AM
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ATSG= Automatic Transmission Service Group

They have manuals on their website

http://atsg.com/cart/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=all&search_str=mercedes&x=0&y=0

or you can find them on ebay, Amazon or some of the tranny parts suppliers.

Some parts are cheaper at junkyards, (front pumps/valve bodies), but you may as well take yours apart and see what you need first.
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:08 AM
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Any one can do transmission work.

Thirty+ years ago I had a cherry Olds '63 F-85 Cutlass (it's purchase for $150 was a lesson in how stealerships work) with the 215 aluminum block V-8 (later used by Rover) and a transmissions from hell (it didn't have a torque converter). Specific only to the '61 to '63 Olds F-85, GM quit providing parts around 1965 for the transmission.

Five years and 40,000 miles after the purchase the tranny acted up.

I bought a non-working F-85 transmission for $10, about the value of the aluminum case and swaped out parts until it worked. When you are 24 in grad school, time is costless.

Considering how totally ignorant I was at the time (not claiming I'm less ignorant now), it proves anyone can rebuild a transmission.

The car went out of my life in 1984 when my ex-wife1 took it to work against my protest about projected hail storms. Instead of hail, the car got hit by a tornado. It ripped the hood off, breaking the windshield, creasing the roof, and taking out the hinge mounting area of the body.

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Last edited by alamostation; 10-07-2009 at 09:29 AM.
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