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  #1  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:57 PM
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87 MB 124 morning start with carburetor spray

Symptoms:
1)I have a 1987 MB diesel with the 124 body style. I replaced all the glow plugs about 7 K miles ago. Car has 130M miles. But every morning, I have to use a quick small spray of carburetor starting fluid in the rubber connector between the air cleaner and engine to get the engine running. The sprayOne the engine is warm, I can then restart it without the carburetor spray.

IS there anyone out there has a similar problem, and if you do, how do you solve this problem.

2) How can I adjust the neutral switch on this car in order to start the car.I had a similar problem 8 years, and a mercedes shop re-adjust the neutral switch and now the problem comes back.

Any suggestions to adjust to align this neutral switch are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, HArry


Last edited by santarosa; 10-08-2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason: good cause
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:05 PM
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If you like your engine at all DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID.

Verify that all glow plugs are good and are receiving voltage. Correct as needed. If the glow plug system checks out ok, I would start looking at fuel delivery problems, particularly an air leak into the fuel system. It's not a bad idea to do a compression check to rule out premature low compression (like you might get from using starting fluid) as contributing to the problem.

On #2, are you talking about a different problem? NSS trouble will make the starter fail to engage. Starting fluid won't make any difference there.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:21 PM
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If you're using starting fluid to start the car, your glow plugs are most definitely shot right about now. If the glow plugs check out, like previously stated, I would look into fuel delivery problems. What is the condition of the primary and secondary fuel filters? If the primary is black, it's most likely shot and has taken the secondary down with it.

Starting fluid will destroy your engine.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:30 PM
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For a diesel to start, you need good compression, and good cranking speed. If either doesn't exist you could have trouble starting the car even with properly-operating glow-plugs.

I'm going to have to assume that you know how to start the car properly, as you imply that you've had it for at least 7,000miles, however:

The glow plugs will stay on after the light turns off. In fact, the light timer sometimes goes bad and turns the light off early. Anyway, turn the key to glow, let it glow for 30seconds and see how it starts. You can tell when the glow-plugs turn off by the brightness of the dome light, the speed of the blower, or the click of the relay.

And yes, starting fluid is very bad for an engine, especially a glowplug engine.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:40 PM
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I used WD40 back in my pro wrenching days for diagnosing Diesel issues.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:59 PM
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Whats the condition of your shift linkage bushings?
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:11 PM
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Has anyone mentioned that it's a bad idea to use ether to start a diesel that has glowplugs?
Go to www.dieselgiant.com and follow his procedure for troubleshooting the glowplug system.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2009, 11:45 PM
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A block heater (which the '87 came with from the factory) would help the engine start while the underlying problem is diagnosed and fixed. At most a power cord will be needed for the block heater. A trickle charger on the battery will ensure a full charge for starting in the morning and will also keep the battery warmer that it otherwise would be, sitting out in the cold overnight.

The 603 engine starts much more easily when it's allowed to glow at least ten or fifteen seconds. Don't go by the Preglow light, it shuts off too quickly in most cases. If it's cold, the full 30 seconds is a good idea.

The NSS problem could be caused by worn shifter bushings, a worn, damaged, or loose NSS, or damaged wiring. Sometimes it's possible to wiggle the shifter or move it between neutral and park in order to get the starter motor to engage.

Jeremy
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2009, 02:16 AM
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guys, what about spraying a liberal amount of acetylene in the same rubber connector--would that work?
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
guys, what about spraying a liberal amount of acetylene in the same rubber connector--would that work?
=8-0

Pressure and acetylene is something that my welding teacher told me to avoid. If anyone reads no further, avoid pressure and acetylene. If safety infractions are handed out, the above may be a candidate.

Acetylene is stored in acetone solution at low pressure, about 15 or 30 psi because it will explode at high pressures as a gas. Per wikipedia, about 39 psi. I don't know if this is partial pressure or absolute. My guess is partial pressure of the gas. So if by your uncontrolled process, you know the mole fraction (relative abundance) of acteylene the precombustion charge, you multiply that by your cylinder pressure of 0-400 psi, when you get 40 psi, bango! Probably much sooner if it goes by a hot glo plug. I think you'd likely get a detonation like with ether, but possibly do more damage.
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
guys, what about spraying a liberal amount of acetylene in the same rubber connector--would that work?
No....Just....No!!! This sounds like a terrible idea.



Again as others have said check your glowplugs and report back with your findings. We will go from there good luck..
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2009, 11:08 PM
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87 MBZ 300D carburetor spray morning

Thanks for all your comments fellows. The hard starting is definitely not the glow plugs which all have been replaced with new glow plugs about 7K miles ago. One small tiny spray of carburetor starting fluid in the morning is all it takes to get the car started. I usually wait for the buzzer to stop before hot wire to start the car. My neutral switch linkage must be off which is another problem unrelated to the hard starting.

I suspect the hard starting is a fuel problem. Both fuel filters have been replaced about 20K miles ago. If there is air in the line, the engine would run poorly, but it does not run poorly. It runs well after started.

I think I conclude that it may still be fuel filter issue. May have to replace fuel filter again. Has anyone here replaced fuel filter inside the fuel tank?

Any feedbacks are appreciated. HArry
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2009, 11:13 PM
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well you've probably done some damage to the engine by now by using starting fluid.

there is an in tank strainer. I would inspect the fuel system for air leaks. Air will get in before fuel will leak out!
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2009, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santarosa View Post

I suspect the hard starting is a fuel problem. Both fuel filters have been replaced about 20K miles ago. If there is air in the line, the engine would run poorly, but it does not run poorly. It runs well after started.

I think I conclude that it may still be fuel filter issue. May have to replace fuel filter again. Has anyone here replaced fuel filter inside the fuel tank?

Any feedbacks are appreciated. HArry
How well do you consider well to be? I've known people who had their motor mounts completely shot, dirty filters..and they never thought anything of it.

There is a chance that your shut off lever is not fully up. This could cause rough starts but seem ok later on. I just replaced some vacuum hose to the vac reservoir (the line coming off of the brake booster line) and my car starts amazingly now (and I thought it was good already) It also shuts off immediately when I turn the key off.
No shakes or stumbles whatsoever, and by now (29 degrees tonight) it would have been stumbling for a few seconds after starting...and the line seemed perfectly fine, too! As they say, the slightest leak will still cause a problem.

..it's worth a look! And yes, air in your fuel lines WILL cause less than ideal idling and starting. I just won that battle recently as well.

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