Buying a 77 Mercedes 300d - Help?

[ajb]

Hi Folks,
I'm new to this board and am impressed by the depth of knowledge that all of you have. I do most of the work on my vehicles and have previously owned a diesel Jetta - so I am familar with diesel maintenance and the benefits of owning a diesel. I'm interested in owning an older MB as I like the styling, aspects of the diesel and the lack of sensors and electronics "stuff" that you find many newer cars.

I'm going to look at a 1977 Mercedes 300d that I am interested in purchasing. The vehicle has 170,000 miles - pw, ps, ac, auto. trans and is a 2 owner vehicle. The floors have been repaired in 96 and the car has some surface rust. (This is all according to the owner - I haven't seen the car yet)

Since I've never owned a MB before I'm a bit worried about what I need to be checking and looking for prior to buying this car. What specific areas or parts do I need to look at? Are there any "weak links" in this year? I've searched the archives and found a bit of info. but would appreciate any help this forum could provide.
Thanks in advance for your help!

Aivars Berzins

PS I'm located on the east coast of Canada and the car price is $3500 Can.

[ncarter]

Aivars,

It sounds like the "weak link" in this particular car will be body rust. This body style has always been a little touchy about getting rust, especially in "salty" climates (snow+road salt). The body trim catches water and mud and salt in certain places and rust starts to grow. If the floorpans were replaced, it's probably because they rusted out. If you're lucky, the "surface rust" will really be just surface rust which could probably be controlled with a little TLC. If you're unlucky, it might be rust bubbles that start under the paint, eat all the way through the metal, and can only be repaired by a "surgical" procedure such as cutting out the infected spots and welding in new metal.

Other than that, I can't really think of a particular weak spot on these cars. The rubber components in the vacuum system start to fall apart after about 20 years, but if the vacuum system still work (door locks, engine shut-off, transmission shifting, EGR) it's likely that the previous owner already repaired them.

The auto transmission will shift a little stiffly if it's working properly. It starts in 2nd gear unless you stomp on it from the line.

170,000 miles is not much for a '77 model year. I'd say your best bet is to take a look at the normal wear indicators for a car, take a look at the condition of the the "visible" parts of the car, and make an educated decision about whether the previous owners took care of it. You know, check the oil, kick the tires, pull the cylinder head and give the pistons a quick visual.. okay, maybe not that last one.

If the body indeed does have only "surface rust," the interior looks well-cared-for, all the gadgets work properly, the vacuum system works, and the transmission shifts a little crisply (some say harshly) when it's reasonably likely that it's been well-maintained.

On the other hand, if it's rusted to pieces, the interior is shot, none of the vacuum components work, and the tranny feels sluggish or spongy, then IMO it's pretty likely that the engine, suspension, and drivetrain were also neglected.

Good luck and let us know how it looks and drives once you see it.

- Nathan
'83 240D "Steiner"
'00 New Beetle TDI

Make sure you check for oil consumption. Look inside the air cleaner. If there is oil on the air cleaner element, beware. If the drip tube that runs from the oil separator in the bottom of the air cleaner back to the oil pan is leaking beware. If you pull off the oil filler cap while the engine is running and oil blows everywhere, beware. On top of all that, it wouldn't hurt at all to get a compression check done before buying it.

Also, I had a '77 240D way back when. The 240D (the engine is the same as a 300D, except it has one less cylinder) had a recall on timing chains and prechambers. Both were defective, and either could hand grenade the engine in the event of their failure. Be sure those pieces were upgraded.

Also, make sure the transmission doesn't leak and that it shifts well.

These are basically sound cars from which you can get a zillion miles, but you have to get one that is in good shape to start with.
Good luck,

[psfred]

Check for rust in the trunk under the mat, below the brake booser, and under the selant on the floors. The fenders around the headlights are also a problem area, as are the taillights. Rear fenders at the bottom are rust magnets, too.

All this is somewhat difficult to repair -- my brother and I have about two more nights of welding to finish off his 75 300D in preparation for lead filling and painting -- we have repaired both floor pans (I will buy them next time!), firewall, roker panels, both rear fender lower section, trunk floor, rear suspension mount, rear fender wells (perfect where exposed to the elements, rotten inside were the water collected!), and a few fender spots up front. It is not economical to have this done, the car isn't worth that much in excellent condition.

The window gaskets are gone, and leaking, allowing water to collect on the floors. I would be somewhat suspicious -- anywhere water can collect will give you huge rust problems with these cars, and the supply of replacement stampings is drying up.

Canada is hell on cars -- my 82 Dodge Aries literally rusted away in the three winters I spent in Sault Ste. Marie.

$3500 Cdn. is a bit high for a car with even surface rust -- I only paid $1700 for mine, with no visible rust (although the floor pans were gone between the undercoating and floor sealant!)

Nothing else is really a problem on these cars -- rubber all goes south, but unless abused, should still be running well.

Peter

[jcd]

The experts have given you good advice. My experience has been climate control is very tempermental and the servo's are expensive to replace.

All in all, between my father and myself, my car has had no issues, except the climate control, in almost 25 years of driving. Mine has 173,000 miles and runs like a dream.

Of course rust is a major issue up north and past maintenance is key as well, but if the owner maintained the car, you will have a great time. I love my 1977 300D.

JCD

[ajb]

Hi, Thanks for all of the great advice! I went to check out the 77 300d yesterday and what a mess. Rust had did a number on this car, and the owner must have hired a blind monkey to do the bodywork. Gravel guard couldn't hide the body filler that wasn't peeling off the body! There were a lot of areas where metal repair had been done, but not very well. Mechanically the engine ran okay, not much blowby, but seemed a bit hard to start. (I got the feeling there wasn't a lot of regular service done here)

The vacuum system was messed, as the door locks & the climate controls didn't work. Front end seemed loose, rotors were rough looking and the interior was in pieces. When I talked to the owner on the phone (he lives in another part of the country) he was surprised that the car was in such rough shape, although he had driven it during the summer. I did offer him $1200, with the intent of using this car as a second vehicle - but he just laughed and suggested it was worth at least $3000.

Needless to say, I chalked this up to my first "MB buying expedition". Thanks again for all of your input, suggestions and advice - it sure helped out! I've also been told of a 79 240d with auto. trans. that is for sale. It has been sitting for a year and won't start due to glow plug problems. The motor has been running (it was push started I was told?) In this a step in the right direction car wise? (I realise that 240d is a slow vehicle) Would I just check all of the areas that I was told to check on the 300d?

Thanks again for you help!

Hopefully, I'm not jumping from the frying pan into the fire!?
Aivars Berzins

This is my first post on mercedesshop.com, although I have been reading along for a few weeks now.

I know nothing about the 300D, but I have recently purchased a nice used 240D. My experience with diesels up to now has been with late 70's-early 80's VW's (which are getting harder to find good ones in my area). I have driven several Rabbit and Golf diesels--they accelerate rather slowly, but economy is the key. I also owned an '83 Quantum Turbo Diesel (the VW flagship?)--the difference was amazing! It would accelerate well and also deliver 35mpg.

Based upon that information, I am quite happy with my 240D (manual trans.) which I found at a steal for US$350. It isn't fast off the line, but it does deliver a smooth ride and gets 32mpg just running around. While being easy on the accelerator, it does take about 1/2 mile to get her to 55mph. (It will do it quicker, but that would consume more diesel!)

If you want to win races at the stop lights, then buy a Porsche. But if you want a solid car that will get you from A to B for a reasonable price, then by all means, check out the 240D.