The track/guide rod mounts on my '83 300CD-T (Calif.) have been bad for a good eight years and they sound that way, believe me. I'd like to replace them. That is, using the remove-the-spring technique, not the pull-the-lower-control-arm-forward technique.

Of course, if I'm going to go so far as to remove the spring, then I'm open to replacing various bushings, etc., etc. Here's the rub: Much of the front end was replaced (by a very capable M-B indy. tech.) in Feb. of 1998 - about 33,000 miles ago. What was replaced?
Here's the list:
*Front shocks
*"Front supports" (guessing that was the steering knuckle - maybe not though)
*Lower control arms and bushings (I'm assuming the tech. did the control arm bushings *AND* the guide rod mounts)
*Upper control arms and bushings
*Ball joints

Any reason to replace any of the above so soon (it seems to me)?

Any reason to:
*Replace the drag link?
*Rebuild the idler arm?
*Replace the two tie rods?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks-

Only 33k miles in 11 years, is that correct?

All of those components are replaced "on condition", not mileage.

However, I cannot imagine that any of them need replacement with only 33K on them.

I recently did a bunch of suspension components up front on the SD............and none of those components were completely shot by observation. The SD has 209K on the clock.

personally i'd change the shocks after 10 years and 33k miles--do a push test on the front fenders to tell you where your shocks are at approximately. i'd also do the spring pads and LCA bushings, but only if the bushings show visible cracking, and only if you decide to remove the springs. ball joints i'd only replace if the wheels had some play in them, and if i did replace them i'd do inner and outer followed by an alignment. that's going to cost you a good $200+ in parts and labor right there, so no sense in doing it if it's not necessary. i guess the same goes for shocks, especially since you only seem to drive it like 3k miles a year

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He means tie rod ends.
Why not use the pull the control arm forward method? Just asking, as I recently did it this way. Next time I'll remove the spring, because the next car needs more than just the guide rod mounts replaced.

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79 MB 280 SEL Euro 133k
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Yeah, make sure of what needs replacing. I've found bad shocks will pass the bounce test.
You use the seat of your pants to figure that out. But after a bunch of stuff was recently replaced, I also can't think of what's wrong.
The front supports I believe are the lower or supporting ball joints.
Check for any play on the parts you list at the end of your first post. Inspect the ball joint ends on those components.

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83 SD

84 CD

Well, I've checked all of those components and, honestly, it looks pretty good in there. No signs of wear in the boots or bushings. The only issue appears to be the very worn out track/guide rods.

And yes, about 33,000 mi. in 11 years is correct. We don't drive the vehicle that much (obviously). If I can just figure out the wretched alternator/battery problem (the other thread I have going presently), the wife and me will be back on completely friendly speaking terms with the car

As for the remove-the-spring technique versus the pull-the-lower-control-arm-forward technique...Well, I've never done either one. For the longest time, I was going to take the latter approach. However, after contemplating it for a few months, I just think that I should probably be a little more by the book about it. Perhaps it is a combination of increasing age, using/handling firearms, and having a few meaningful narrow misses in life: I'm increasingly erring on the side of caution and going by the book a bit more. That's the best answer I've got.

On a different subject:
1. Is it recommended to replace the coil spring shim? Or is it the spring's perch? I just seem to remember some suggestion about replacing something touching the coil spring if one removed the spring. ideas?

2. True?: One most drop (plus loosen and move forward) the lower control arm in order to disengage the track rod itself?

Thank you--

I'd think about the steering damper, unless you've got a record of when that was last done. The idler arm is pretty easy, and IIRC, it's not easy to see if it's bad. Those can be done when the springs are in, though, so you don't need to include them in this repair.

A clarification question: by "track/guide rod mount" you mean the softball-sized fitting that's held in by three bolts near the wheel arch and connects to the LCA by the straight tube, right? I ask because the FSM refers to the ball joint on the UCA as the "guide joint" and the Haynes manual refers to the tie rods as "track rods". Fastlane part #W0133-1617399, I presume.

Others may have different experience, but you probably don't need new tubes (rods) unless they've had a LOT of shimmy and the hole that connects to the LCA has been made out-of-round -- or if they got bent somehow, but then you've got other problems. When I rebuilt mine, I figured I'd replace mine since my front end was in sorry shape but the replacement Febi-Bilsteins did not fit (the holes were too small - they may have been manufactured to an older M-B spec) and the replacement bushings for the tube/LCA connection also were low quality. If you choose to buy replacement tubes/rods, I suggest you dry-test fit all the parts before tear-down. I ended up returning the new ones and re-installing the original M-B tubes; but I had to wait for the new bushings to arrive.

I don't think there's any need to replace the spring pad unless you want to lower the car a few mm. You can check before disassembly by looking for the number of small bumps on the bottom outside circumference of the pad. You've probably got the 23 mm/4-bump pad. It'll be obvious when you see the bumps.

Since you're talking about erring on the side of safety, buy/rent the M-B compressor, not the Auto-Zone one; and expect to grind out the hole in the top of the shock tower by 1-2 mm to fit the compressor inside. It's no sweat with a Dremel; some sweat but do-able with a round file.

I did mine this way too... Once I figured it out, it was not that big of a deal. I posted pics of the whole procedure. They are on here somewhere. I think the thread was called "Guide Rod Mount Fun". Using a "big strap ratchet" with a "small strap" installed made the job pretty easy. The only freaky part was releasing the tension on the strap! The first side took a while... The other side was a piece of cake.

I just wanted the things replaced NOW. Those rear Guide Rod Mounts were completely worn out caused all kinds of weird vibrations and clunking, etc...

I plan to remove the springs at some point and replace the LCA bushings. I just have not got to that point either.

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AJ

1985 300D (SOLD)

I do have a record (not in front of me at the moment) of replacing it. Was relatively recently.

Am I missing the obvious..."IIRC"???

Some parts suppliers call it a strut rod, others call it a guide rod. Part #W0133-1627319 or 1233302130. It is the rod situated between the mount attached to the frame and the lower control arm.

My plan is to rent/borrow the M-B specd. spring compressor from the links here on Mshop.

Still wondering: Will I have to drop down plus loosen (at the ball joint just inside the wheel hub) and move forward the lower control arm in order to disengage the strut /guide rod end from the lower control arm?

Thanks--

I've referenced your post a lot. I think that's where I originally got the idea of pulling the lower control arm forward.
Question: What did you attach the other end of your "big strap ratchet" to? The back or bumper or whatever of another vehicle? A tree?...?

IIRC = If I recall correctly.

If you're replacing the rod, then you'll probably want new bushings to go with it in the LCA; W0133-1631144 Fastlane lists this as a Karlyn part.

I had the Febi-Bilstein rods and a Hamburg-Technic bushing kit. The kit didn't fit the rod and the gaskets were badly made. They all went back to the seller and I re-installed the M-B original rod, original bolt and new replacement gaskets from another source. The original parts and the new rubber went back in nice and snug. I've sworn off doing business with that retailer. No problems with Fastlane parts.

I think I'm confused on the "pull-forward" method. I reviewed snook's thread and I think he changed the mount, but the left the rod in place. I don't think there's any way to change the rod without pulling the spring and lowering the arm. The bolt that holds the rod into the LCA is half-covered by the spring perch.

Here is that thread:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=248082&highlight=guide+rod+mount+fun


Look down at post #14 in that thread. This is where all the pictures are. At the top of every picture I talk about where the strap is going or what is happening in the picture.

I used one of those giant strap ratchets and removed the "big strap". Then I installed a thinner strap with hooks that are easier to use.

The 6th picture down shows the strap running up to the front bumper. That strap actually wrapped around the bumper mount.

The 7th picture shows where the short end of the strap (the part that bolts to the strap ratchet base). This part ran from the ratchet to the outer end of the control arm between the Lower BJ and the Lower Shock mount.

I only worked the strap enough to "just get the old mount out". I put the new mount in and got the threads/bolts started. Then, I released the pressure on the strap (there is a lot of pressure on that strap!). At this point the new mount slammed into the position as the old one.

It is very simple, once you figure it out. The most important part about the whole procedure is having the car lifted properly. I was really paranoid. I had jack stands everywhere. But, you really only need a couple stands and a good floor jack (not the Autozone/Advance P.O.S.).

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AJ

1985 300D (SOLD)

The forward mount is much more robust than the rear as it solidly bolted in place. It rarely goes bad. As I have learned... It is just common practice to replace those pieces when you remove spring to access LCA bushings and or to work on the ball joints.

If I remember correctly, according to the FSM... The spring only needs to be removed to replace the LCA bushings.

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AJ

1985 300D (SOLD)

^ Where is the "tube" in your very good pics in the link to your post? I would think you left it in place in front, but can't locate it in the pics.

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83 SD

84 CD