Oil flush and curing a noisy lifter - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

s38junkie · #1 11-01-2009, 03:30 PM

Said car is a 1986 300D Euro model with the NA 603. Although the oil was just changed 300 miles ago with Shell Rotella 15W-40, it was still pretty black. And one of the lifters at idle was quite noisy.

So my buddy and I flushed the oil TWICE this morning. First time, we filled it with 5.5 quarts of 15W-40 Shell Rotella and 2 quarts of ATF leaving the oil filter unchanged. We then drove it for 15 miles.

We then flushed it a second time, this time using 7.5 quarts of Shell Rotella 5W-40 synthetic and changed the filter. After a 60 mile trip home, the oil still has nice golden color and my lifter noise is completely gone!!

Just thought I would share on what worked to cure my the dreaded lifter "tick" and improve my oil quality.

sasquatchgeoff · #2 11-01-2009, 03:54 PM

Just using the synthetic rotella (5W40) cured the intensity of my lifter noise, I had run Mobil 1 5W40 before and the lifters got noisy as heck. Dino Rotella 15W40 was pretty noisy as well. With the synthetic rotella its a little noisy at startup but once the pressure is up and the engine is warm it quietens down.

Eventually worn "bucket tappets" come back to haunt regardless of the oil viscosity. They are a wear item (especially after 200K) and will ultimately need replacement at some point in time.

Interesting to flush using ATF - I have never heard of that. I guess just getting the engine up to temp with the ATF in scours a lot of goop buildup in the pump and oil gallery. Thanks for the tip!

nhdoc · #3 11-01-2009, 04:05 PM

The ATF flush is an old mechanics trick...sometimes it does work.

The oil will turn black again, all diesel oils do. Sometimes it takes a few miles - maybe a few more, but within 100 miles it will be like pitch. And that's perfectly normal.

s38junkie · #4 11-01-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquatchgeoff

Eventually worn "bucket tappets" come back to haunt regardless of the oil viscosity. They are a wear item (especially after 200K) and will ultimately need replacement at some point in time.

Hmmm, I have 240K miles. Is this a DIY job? How many hours of labor is changing a lifter on this motor?

sasquatchgeoff · #5 11-01-2009, 05:10 PM

For me, about 4 hours total labor. The bucket tappets are about $22 each - kinda spendy I know but for what they do and as long as they do it is a good value. I strongly urge use of the FSM for your model vehicle. It is not a good idea to do a job like this without it. Below is how I do it, but your situation may be different so use only as a general guideline.

Pull the valve cover, line up TDC mark on cam sprocket, mark and safety-wire the timing sprocket/chain, remove chain tensioner, remove camshaft/sprocket bolt and sprocket, carefully back out camshaft bearing cap bolts according to FSM sequence, and remove/renew bucket tappets. Reverse procedure and torque according to FSM values.

This might also be a good time to check timing chain elongation via the "2 mm" method with dial gauge described in FSM. 4 degrees off "OT" on crank damper is considered the threshold of renewal. Also inspect chain rails for unusual wear.

sixto · #6 11-01-2009, 05:11 PM

Remove crossover pipe, remove valve cover, ziptie chain to sprocket, remove cam sprocket bolt, remove chain tensioner, remove cam sprocket from cam, remove cam towers (mind the sequence), remove cam (mind the indexing key and thrust bearing), have at lifters.

gsxr says squishy lifters are prime suspects for being noisy.

Sixto
87 300D

sixto · #7 11-01-2009, 05:12 PM

That's one speedy 190D 2.5

Sixto
87 300D

s38junkie · #8 11-01-2009, 05:17 PM

^^ Wow, this board is a wealth of information! Thanks for all the great advice (virtually on demand)!

Hatterasguy · #9 11-01-2009, 05:21 PM

I found simply running a real synthetic over time helped a lot. Give it 10k miles to work.

OTOH you could just replace the offending lifter, its not that hard.

sasquatchgeoff · #10 11-01-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I found simply running a real synthetic over time helped a lot. Give it 10k miles to work.

OTOH you could just replace the offending lifter, its not that hard.

Aside from a stethoscope, is there a trick to locating exactly which lifter offends?

Hatterasguy · #11 11-01-2009, 05:30 PM

I forget since its been a few years since I did the job, but its in the FSM. There is a test where you push them down and I think the soft ones are bad. But its been awhile so I'm probably wrong.

I just replaced all of them.

Its a very easy job; just crossover, valve cover, cam. Use a magnet to lift the lifters out.

JHZR2 · #12 11-01-2009, 08:02 PM

ATF has worse detergency/dispersancy than a HD diesel spec oil. Likely the cross between viscosity and flow enables some cleaning, but I doubt youll see any true difference between what was done and had you just used multiple drains of regular oil.

It is a good result to post about though...

And FWIW, M1 5w-30 is not the right oil for ANY MB diesel unless youre living in temperatures below freezing. Have to look at the temp/viscosity charts.

sasquatchgeoff · #13 11-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

And FWIW, M1 5w-30 is not the right oil for ANY MB diesel unless youre living in temperatures below freezing. Have to look at the temp/viscosity charts.

Yeah - I know that now -I went out and double-checked the jug and it was 5W-40 for "turbo-diesel truck engines" BTW, 0W40 is the oil that came up on the Mobil 1 website "help me decide" webpage

JHZR2 · #14 11-01-2009, 08:42 PM

Which I do not agree with. the 0w-40, while a VERY good oil, does have a shear profile that IMO is not good for the older engines. 5w-40 is my choice, with 15w-40 good for most situations and more readily available...

Hatterasguy · #15 11-01-2009, 09:00 PM

I ran Delvac 1 in mine, than switched to Amsoil 15w40. (My uncle uses a ton of Amsoil 15w40 in his equipment so I was able to get it pretty cheap)

You could eat off the inside of my 603, everything looked new. However the lifters still ticked a bit, sometimes you just have to change them.

I'm a beliver in real synthetic oils, you really can see the difference when you open an engine up.