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  #1  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:11 PM
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Location: New Jersey
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300cd emergency window question

Hello,

when operating the doors on a 300cd, do the windows go down and up a bit when the doors are opened/closed?

I'm looking at one, but with the windows all the way up, both main side windows have a tiny gap between rear quarter window vertical seals and the actual glass. The rubber seal seems to create a standoff that forms the gap.

How does the window operate to seal tight without a gap?

__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:24 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
WAG

Not as designed!

Are we talking Electric Window Lifts? Or "Roll Up"?

[Now the WAG,What date were the body repairs done by the Fiat Shop?]
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:25 PM
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No, the windows do not move or auto adjust when the doors are opened and closed.
Looking from the outside of the car, the door glass should be parallel to the trim strip on the back windows (exterior elevation). In plan when closed there should be no gap- the door windows closes against the weatherstrip firmly. I think when the cars were new, the panes of glass were intended to be in the same plane.
Operate the rear windows and as they rise see if pulling the top leading edge forward makes them shift position and when they are getting close to the top watch how they seat into the weatherstrip groove in the roof. They can get out of alignment.
Operate the door window and watch how it fits into the weatherstrip groove at the roof.
Do this on both sides of the car.
The window regulators on the CD are points of weakness- the doors because the glass is so big, and the coupe windows because of -well, I'd call it a design flaw- the angle that the window slides down.
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95 E300D working out the kinks
77 300D, 227k, station car
83 300CD 370k, gone away
89 190E 2.6- 335k, no more
79 VW FI Bus- 145k miles, summer driver
59 VW Beetle ragtop- 175k miles
12 VW Jetta- 160k miles
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:35 PM
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Thing is, this isn't a parallel to the seals issue, it is an inboard/outboard issue- almost like the seal is so hard it forces the door window away.
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:15 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 300
Is there wind noise? Have you driven it thru the car wash yet to see the water spray in the joint where the mirrors are? When you do that look at the door/rear window seal to see if it leaks.

I'm (kinda) kidding.

I do know that when my drivers side regulator cracked, the window shifted a little bit and left a gap as you describe. I've since cobbled together a repair and when I was putting it all back together getting the window to sit just so... took some time.

How far is the rear edge of the door window from the trim of the rear window? Something nagging in the back of my brain is thinking about the rear windows being adjusted to close too far forward, driving the door window toward the outside of the car.

This may be off base, and feel free to tell me to butt out- is it a private sale or something posted online?
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95 E300D working out the kinks
77 300D, 227k, station car
83 300CD 370k, gone away
89 190E 2.6- 335k, no more
79 VW FI Bus- 145k miles, summer driver
59 VW Beetle ragtop- 175k miles
12 VW Jetta- 160k miles
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:05 PM
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It's a car that I found in ca and am taking delivery of... Garage kept for the most part, very nice.

The rear windows are perfect. Go up and down, straight and nice. The front (door) windows work fine and lineup perfectly, if I roll them down a tad then up into place. I think that what has happened is that the top side window sealshave gotten so hard that they do not give or flex, they just push the window off, creating the gap along the vertical part of the window (since the base is fixed and the top forces the window out - you get a triangle as the result).

When I roll the window down a bit then into place, it is tight andhighway driving is very quiet, suprisingly so compared even to my other 300d cars.
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:48 PM
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Here are some pictures, hopefully it will make it more clear...









You can see, the top of the door glass sits on top of the upper seal. The upper seal has two parts, one that is effectively over the door glass, and part of the same piece, but another section that is effectively over the rear quarter window.

The window sits at one point or another (usually towards the rear of the door glass, up top, but can hang as far forward as where the glass starts to slope down towards the front), and the seal presses the glass outboard. SInce the glass is structually held at the bottom, you get a small gap along the vertical edge, which I tried to get an image of.

I think it has as much to do with the upper window seals being hard and unforgiving as anything else. Ive put some lexon vinylex on them to help plasticize them a bit... we will see... Krytox grease would be my next try... replacement will need to occur at some point.
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:14 AM
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Location: Lutz, Florida (N of Tampa)
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i cant tell for sure from your pictures, but I had a similar issue. I had to adjust the rear quarter windows back to keep them from hitting the front windows so hard it pushed them out. It may also be the front windows although I do not know how much front to back adjust there is there. I only had the rears out on mine.
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:35 AM
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Location: south of Atlanta
Posts: 116
1. The original regulators were indeed weak. I just replaced one on my CD and the new one (from the Dealer) has metal twice as thick where it counts (in the gears).

2. As you've said, the sealing geometry is complex. If you end up taking the inner door panel off, the window is pretty much infinitely adjustable...every direction, every angle. Once you get it right, it works very well.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:09 PM
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My issue isn't actually the operation of the window - they work very well.

My issue is that when the window is all the way up, and the door is opened and closed, the window doesn't "slip" past the upper seal, instead it sits on top of it.

Rolling it up and down, it aligns perfectly and closes tight. It slips past the upper seal when I open the door, but closing the door, it doesn't go back in...

I think that is the problem - hard rubber seals.

Can anyone look at their windows when they close the doors? I assume that the window presses down and/or slides under the upper seal, correct???

Thanks!
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:34 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: south of Atlanta
Posts: 116
Just looked at mine.

When I close the door, the glass just barely rubs the bottom of the seal on the way in.

My guess is that your window is too high or your seal is too low.

It gets more complicated...in order to get mine to seal perfectly, I adjusted the complex geometry of this thing so that the first thing to hit (when closing the door) is the top/aft corner of the glass, just by a mm or two. Then as the door fully closes, the glass (or door, or whatever) bends or flexes such that the glass tucks itself neatly up into the seal. Not as simple as a plain sedan.

It took me a few weeks of horsing around with it, with the inner door panel off. Plan on at least a full weekend.

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