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  #1  
Old 11-13-2009, 04:15 PM
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Is This A B2 Piston Problem Or Is It Something Else.

History:
ATF Fluid level good and Fluid and Filter were changed about 7,000 miles ago. When I bought the car the Transmission had a harsh 1-2 shift. There was no vacuum issues so I put in some Lucas Transmission Sealer/conditioner and it took a way most of the harsh shift but added a little flare to the 3-4 shift. Shift to Reverse has always been slightly harsh when cold but improves after Trans Fluid is warm.

Symptoms:
After a stop when you step on the Accelerator Pedal the Car moves but there is a hesitation before the Car moves.

When you accelerate slowly there is no hesitation.

When I put the Shift Lever in Low and step on the Accelerator Pedal most of the time it will not move at all.

If I start with the Shift Lever in 2nd no problems. No problems in the other forward gears when in Drive.
I believe thatn when I have it in Drive and it finally moves it is starting in 2nd gear.

Transmission was working fine one day and the next day as described above.

Did some searches that leads me to believe it is a B2 Piston or Band Issue (I am guessing if it was a Band problem it would have gotten progressively worse).


I have the Car (a 123) up on Jack Stands right now and it is clear I will not just be able to easily pop out the B2 Piston and inspect it; let a lone change it and the related parts.

Is there anything else that would cause the above Symptoms?

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Last edited by Diesel911; 11-13-2009 at 04:20 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2009, 06:24 PM
GradyG
 
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You might have thought twice before putting an additive into your tranmission. Those transmission sealant additives tend to just swell seals to try to get them to re-seal, and by swelling the seals they are really just breaking them down. You'll be in for a rebuild sooner than later I suspect as a result.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2009, 06:26 PM
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Word on the street is if you undo some of the trans mounts and loosen the engine mounts you can shift the trans over enough with a crowbar to get the B2 out.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2009, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gradyg3 View Post
You might have thought twice before putting an additive into your tranmission. Those transmission sealant additives tend to just swell seals to try to get them to re-seal, and by swelling the seals they are really just breaking them down. You'll be in for a rebuild sooner than later I suspect as a result.
At the time I put the addative in I felt the harsh shift was being caused by a worn Transmission. I did not expect the addative to work a miricale.
It did work way better than I expected.
The effect was that I have had the Car on the road for 2 years and it stopped most of the hard shifting; and the hard shifting itself is destructive. And, it did that at a time when I had only 1 Car the Mercedes running. So in my mind the addative has done valuable service.

It was just another one of lifes compromises.

Right now I am just trying to see if there is something else that can cause the Symptoms that I am having.
So far it looks like I will be changing the B2 Piston.

I have that ASTG Transmission manual but it looks like it takes a bunch fo special tools and what would be a lot of Vehicle down time for me to attempt a rebuild of the Trasmission. I have also read that the Manual is short on details

If I could do a temp fix on the trans and get another year or so of use I would be happy. It would give time to look into other options.

Thanks for your input.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2009, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
Word on the street is if you undo some of the trans mounts and loosen the engine mounts you can shift the trans over enough with a crowbar to get the B2 out.
I have been speaking with Deliveryvalve and he said he and a Friend did it in a somewhat similar manner. That that the tipped the down also.

I have been wondering if completely pulling off the Motor mounts completely would give more room the tip the Trans down or it would not need to be tipped as far down.

Do you agree that the Symptoms look like a B2 Piston problem?

Thanks for your input.
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2009, 02:25 AM
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Doesn't the K-1 spring kit attack similar issues? It might behoove you to do the K-1 and the B-2 while your under there.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2009, 08:51 AM
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It sounds enough like a B2 to be worth a look. My main hesitation is you still have some ability to engage first, but I guess that depends how the critter failed. Diesel Giant has a write up for a 123 I think (not positive, I don't have one). I know he also removed the exhaust system aft of the turbo; I ended up doing the same when I did mine. The several write ups describe this job pretty well, only thing I'd add is to be sure you have a seal picker to remove the sealing ring on the short metal tube the b2 slides through. It's been upgraded to a small money teflon part that presumably has less friction. I did not do the K1 spring when I did mine, but that was stupid as you have to pull out anyway, it adds 0 time to the job and supposedly removes the harsh 1-2 up and downshift.
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2009, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian White View Post
Doesn't the K-1 spring kit attack similar issues? It might behoove you to do the K-1 and the B-2 while your under there.
Thanks
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjohn View Post
It sounds enough like a B2 to be worth a look. My main hesitation is you still have some ability to engage first, but I guess that depends how the critter failed. Diesel Giant has a write up for a 123 I think (not positive, I don't have one). I know he also removed the exhaust system aft of the turbo; I ended up doing the same when I did mine. The several write ups describe this job pretty well, only thing I'd add is to be sure you have a seal picker to remove the sealing ring on the short metal tube the b2 slides through. It's been upgraded to a small money teflon part that presumably has less friction. I did not do the K1 spring when I did mine, but that was stupid as you have to pull out anyway, it adds 0 time to the job and supposedly removes the harsh 1-2 up and downshift.

Well, he was very clever and showed doing the job on a 126. 126s have more room than 123s.
I did not read the article in detail but I do not recall that it mentioned 123s at all.
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Old 11-14-2009, 06:55 PM
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I bought my 123 with no 1st gear and no knowlegde of MB's. I did some reading and concluded it was the B2 piston. So I pulled the pan and trans mount and wedged the trans over with a piece of wood. I got everything out but the sleave so I then dropped the exhaust pipe and pulled the sleeve. Removal maybe took an hour or so and installation was about the same. Compared to some jobs it's not bad at all. And yes it sounds like a B2 failure and NO the additive did no harm and as you stated served its purpose. Thanks and good luck
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSarvis View Post
I bought my 123 with no 1st gear and no knowlegde of MB's. I did some reading and concluded it was the B2 piston. So I pulled the pan and trans mount and wedged the trans over with a piece of wood. I got everything out but the sleave so I then dropped the exhaust pipe and pulled the sleeve. Removal maybe took an hour or so and installation was about the same. Compared to some jobs it's not bad at all. And yes it sounds like a B2 failure and NO the additive did no harm and as you stated served its purpose. Thanks and good luck


Thanks.
Looks like I just need to get the updated B2 Piston and Busiing/Sleeve and plan time to install it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:40 PM
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One thing I always do when working on a "new car to me". A couple trips to the do-it-yourself carwash and a buck fifty of so of nothing but engine wash and high pressure in the general area I am going to be working. I buy some pretty rough cars and it take a few times to get the grease and oil off but its worth it. Good luck. Thanks
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:05 PM
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I did end up replacing the B2 Piston and the related parts.

Some pics on Post #5 of this of the below thread.
In the one pic you can see the Metal End of the B2 Band. That is a good thing and means that end is not broken off.
If end of the B2 Band has cracked off you have a Major issue. A rebuilt Transmission or you need to take apart the Trans you have.

I don't remember or the other end of the B2 band is visable; but I guess it can also break off.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/295949-second-gear-starts-when-cold.html

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