oil filter housing gasket on 616/617 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JHZR2 · #1 12-15-2009, 06:18 PM

Hello,

Anyone familiar with the oil filter housing gasket on the 616/617 engine? Does one have to remove the oil cooler lines completely to be able to undo the allen bolts and sufficiently move the housing to replace the gasket?

How difficult is it to clean the gasket? When I did turbo drain grommets, the gasket on the turbo was the worst part (besides fitting the pipe back), because it was impossible to get the surfaces perfectly clean from those angles.

Also, is there a "telltale" sign that the housing gasket is leaking? It seems that the oil down there may be leakage from the backside of the valve cover gasket - the old one was hard.

Thanks!

Diesel911 · #2 12-15-2009, 09:46 PM

I would replace the Valve Cover Gasket first.

I would also try tightening the Oil Filter Housing Bolts firs before I tried raplacing the Gasket.

I do not see how you could have enough room to carefully clean the area with the Oil Filter Housing loose but still attached to the Oil Cooler Lines. So, I believe you would have to remove the Oil Cooler Lines where they attach to the Oil Filter Housing.

You need all the room you can get to prevent a piece of Gasket Material or dirt from getting into the Oil Gallery. (Clean and degrease the Engine before starting work.)

You will most likely need to grind a 24mm wrench thinner and use it to keep the fittings between the Oil Cooler Housing and the Oil Cooler Line Nuts (1-1/16inch or 27mm Wrench) from turning.

I would look in the DIY section to see if some one has a write up on it.

Brian Carlton · #3 12-15-2009, 10:03 PM

If you decide to replace the gasket, be sure to purchase OE.

Also, you'll need to spend over one hour on your back thoroughly cleaning the face of the block until it's surgically clean before installing the new gasket.

You'll definitely need a grinding stone for this task.

JHZR2 · #4 12-15-2009, 10:13 PM

yikes!

I do not believe that it is leaking. Just replaced the valve cover gasket, so only time will tell.

Cleaning gasket surfaces perfectly is really tough.

Also, why grind 24mm wrenches, when super-thin ones can be had from bike shops for less than $10?

Diesel911 · #5 12-16-2009, 01:49 AM

[QUOTE=JHZR2;2361738]yikes!

I do not believe that it is leaking. Just replaced the valve cover gasket, so only time will tell.

Cleaning gasket surfaces perfectly is really tough.

Also, why grind 24mm wrenches, when super-thin ones can be had from bike shops for less than $10?[/QUOTE]

I have not been to a Bicycle Shop since the 1960s. Since that time I have bought all my Bicycle stuff from Kmart or Walmart. So I have to plead ignorance.
Since there is a Bicycle Shop next to one of the Kmarts I guess I will take a look sometime.
But, I do hang out at a cheapie toll store and I would most likely have more use for a thinned regular wrench (I have a big Belt Sander to do the job). Somewhere between $7 and $10 is what a 24mm would cost there.

t walgamuth · #6 12-16-2009, 06:08 AM

Its a job. On the 30 or so benzes I have had we did change one. My maintenance handy man at the time, Mike, did it. I am pretty sure he did not remove the oil lines or clean the mating surfaces with a stone. Since the gasket is paper you really cannot reuse. It did no leak afterword.

Brian Carlton · #7 12-16-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Its a job. On the 30 or so benzes I have had we did change one. My maintenance handy man at the time, Mike, did it. I am pretty sure he did not remove the oil lines or clean the mating surfaces with a stone. Since the gasket is paper you really cannot reuse. It did no leak afterword.

That approach will guarantee a leak. It's impossible to clean the face of the block with the filter housing in the way.

Consider buying a lottery ticket if you choose that approach again.

pselaphid · #8 12-16-2009, 09:49 AM

I've done two without removing anything but the bolts, with success. My leaks were very obvious and intolerable. I had to grind the end of an appropriately sized Allen wrench to get it short enough to get it into one of the heads. I thoroughly cleaned the adjacent area before starting. The heads of the bolts must be cleaned out and the Allen wrench seated completely or you risk fouling the most difficult one to get at. They are very stubborn to break loose. Once they are removed, I recall you can get about 1/2 inch clearance between the housing and the block, barely enough to get a long razorblade tipped scraper in there. I used lots of brake cleaner with the stream directed inside the gasket area so the excess would drain out and hopefully carry bits of gasket with it after scraping. The old gaskets came off in large pieces however, so I don't think there was much risk. When I had the gasket surface as clean and dry as I could get it, I slipped the new gasket in and started two of the bolts...a somewhat tedious and sketchy procedure. I did not use any sort of sealant on the gasket. Some oil will always dribble across the bottom of the mating surface. It didn't seem to matter. Yes, this is all done on your back with oil and brake cleaner dripping in an inconvenient pattern relative to your face. Wear goggles. I changed oil and filter not too long after the job, just in case some bits got loose. It is a difficult and rewarding repair, but I would want to shoot myself if it didn't work and had to be redone. I guess I got lucky...good luck!

MTUpower · #9 12-16-2009, 04:35 PM

This is one job I have to do on my wife's car- plus change the half axles, fix the a/c and do some rust repair. This is why I am buying a third car.

Diesel911 · #10 12-16-2009, 07:53 PM

Since, no sealer was used on the original Gasket I guess it is possible to be able to get it out intact and have not too much to clean.

However, I think that loosening the Filter Housing from the Oil Cooler Hose Tubings seems to be the easier part of the Job.

On all jobs I like as much room to work in as possible; I believe it decreases the chance of a problem and increases the chance of success.

whunter · #11 12-17-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

If you decide to replace the gasket, be sure to purchase OE.

Also, you'll need to spend over one hour on your back thoroughly cleaning the face of the block until it's surgically clean before installing the new gasket.

You'll definitely need a grinding stone for this task.

Interesting idea, never used a grinding stone, preventing grit from entering the engine could be interesting, the filter housing could be flushed on the bench.
You must get a better sealing/surface finish than I do.
Let me know when you are doing this again, I will try to visit for the day.

Here is how I do the job, average time 1-3 hours on a 300D or 300SD:

* Remove the filter cover and cartridge, (for maximum drainage).
* Remove the oil cooler hoses, I grind a 24mm open end for the fitting, the compression nut is a 27mm.
* Disconnect the oil pressure sensor (300SD).
* Remove the oil pressure line (300D).
* Grind down a 6mm ALLEN wrench for the tight spaces.
* Use a 1/4 or 3/8 drive ALLEN socket for the rest.
* Remove the filter housing.
* For rough cleaning, use a mechanics gasket scraper or (abuse) a new one inch flat wood chisel.
* For final cleaning, use a razor scraper, and expect to use up 8 - 10 blades.

Note: the block and filter housing mating surface must have no trace of the old gasket.

On the oil filter housing:
I suggest replacing the oil pressure sensor/line cover gasket at this point, you do NOT want to pull the housing a second time..

Tip:
Attach the new gasket to the filter housing through the outer bolt holes (not the center one) with thin cotton thread, making the knots on the outside (bolt head area).
* Install the oil filter housing with the bolts in it.
** Warning: install ALL of the bolts to the block three or four turns, BEFORE tightening ANY of them.

Bolt (oil filter housing to engine block) torque specification.
There is NO space to get torque wrench access unless you REMOVE the steering gearbox.

US & Metric Bolt Torque by Grade
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=254410

Have a great day.

Brian Carlton · #12 12-17-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Interesting idea, never used a grinding stone, preventing grit from entering the engine could be interesting, the filter housing could be flushed on the bench.
You must get a better sealing/surface finish than I do.
Let me know when you are doing this again, I will try to visit for the day.

I follow your procedure almost to the letter. However, I found that the blade can pass over some of the gasket material that has been effectively fused to the surface of the block. Although you believe it's perfectly flat, the use of a stone will tell otherwise.

The stone is not for getting a flatter steel surface...........it's simply for feeling the drag of some gasket material that is not completely disengaged from the block face.

There is danger in using the stone..........very fine particles can enter the oil passage. It's mandatory to wipe this opening carefully to eliminate as much residue as possible.

I don't believe the entire process is completely without any oil contamination. Hopefully, it's not severe and will pass to the filter.

Believe me............I don't intend to ever do this project again.............one 617.........one gasket change in my lifetime.

whunter · #13 12-17-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I follow your procedure almost to the letter. However, I found that the blade can pass over some of the gasket material that has been effectively fused to the surface of the block. Although you believe it's perfectly flat, the use of a stone will tell otherwise.

The stone is not for getting a flatter steel surface...........it's simply for feeling the drag of some gasket material that is not completely disengaged from the block face.

There is danger in using the stone..........very fine particles can enter the oil passage. It's mandatory to wipe this opening carefully to eliminate as much residue as possible.

I don't believe the entire process is completely without any oil contamination. Hopefully, it's not severe and will pass to the filter.

Believe me............I don't intend to ever do this project again.............one 617.........one gasket change in my lifetime.

Now I understand.
I will try it on the junk 617 before disposal.

Brian Carlton · #14 12-17-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Now I understand.
I will try it on the junk 617 before disposal.

I use a fairly large stone...........about 4" length x 2" width and about 1/2" thick..........just to feel the drag.............

If I feel any drag............I know it's not flat and more work with acetone and/or the blade is required.

t walgamuth · #15 12-17-2009, 05:58 AM

I think it would be easy for a less skilled person to round off the mating surfaces with the stone.