Tips on testing a used engine before buying

[81Wagon]

This isn't Mercedes-specific but hopefully the issue is generic enough to be mostly on-topic .

Long story short, unbeknownst to us the oil pan of the Westerbeke 30 diesel engine in my friend's sailboat rusted through, dumping all the oil into the bilge. The first indication we had that there was a problem was when the engine suddenly died - permanently, of course .

I've found a used engine about 5 hours drive away for a good price. Problem is, it's been sitting in a garage for 3 years and while the seller claims it ran great before it was removed from his friend's boat, there's no way of telling how true that is or what shape it's in now. I took a similar chance once when getting a used 617 engine for my wagon, and it turned out it needed a lot of work to get running (and even then it's clearly in bad shape) so I'm wary of this sort of thing, but on the other hand our budget isn't huge.

I'm going to ask the seller if I can try running it (it's strapped to a pallet) before buying (I'd put in fresh oil and bring a bottle of fuel & battery to use). Is this safe to do for a couple of minutes without coolant, or should I run a garden hose through it or something?

Is it reasonable to assume that even after 3 years it'll start up okay if it's in good shape? Or is it likely that 3 years without use has caused problems?

What should I look/listen for while it's running? (I understand this may be hard to answer without knowing anything about the Westerbeke 30.)

What other suggestions/ideas do you guys have? Thanks!

[Junkman]

What kind of sailboat?

I'd take a battery, jumper cables, fuel can & would definitely put water to it. It should be water cooled from the lake/ocean which will mean that it has an impeller - which means that it will suck water out of a bucket. You just need to run the hose from the bucket to the engine. That's how I pump antifreeze into mine for winter storage. Take a compression gauge and a leak down tester and a small compressor. Look up the stock compression online before you go. You may also need to disassemble the carb before it will run but with good compression I'd buy it. You can fix the small stuff later. Keep the old engine for parts if the 2 are similar.

My 1976 Virie 7 was out of the boat for the 1st time in at least 15 yrs and compression was great. I changed the impeller and replaced some seals. Any bearing and seal company can match seals and bearings. Many gaskets can be made. Ask for a further discount if it won't run.

Search for some Westerbeke forums. There is a ton of info. (Westerbeke supports Virie but I'd prefer a diesel.) Dealer parts are many times more expensive than substitutes that are available.

[oldiesel]

easy to hook up and start,i would rig a way to run water thru it as you want to run it more than a couple of minutes. once its running you can loosen injector lines 1 at a time to see if it is firing more or less equally on all 4 cylinders. Going to be tough to listen for knocks as the exhaust will be pretty loud.Once it runs 5 or 10 minutes any smoke should pretty much have cleared up. the first start may take a while because it has been sitting so long but if it gets warmed up a little and then shut off for an hour or so and then see what it starts like,if it has low compression the starting may take a little time and start firing on one or two cylinders and then gradually pick up the others,typical of a worn engine. At lest your freind should have lots of spares from the old engine. Don

[mhin1956]

Yes, as another sailor, I would recommend letting a garden hose run to buckent and get a hose on the inlet side of freshwater supply. Most marine impellars are rubber and can fail quickly if run dry.

[81Wagon]

Thanks for the advice, Junkman and oldiesel. The engine I'm looking at is identical to the one in the boat so parts should be compatible (seemed like the easiest way to go). It's a diesel so there shouldn't be a carb.

The engine is cooled by a closed, freshwater coolant system to keep from having to run seawater through the engine itself (I guess there's a separate seawater pump & heat exchanger). Does that mean it won't suck water from a bucket? Should I just find some way to hook a hose directly into it?

I've never done a compression test so I guess I'll have to read up on that!

I just realized another issue though. Seller said there was no transmission included. Not a problem because the one in the boat still works, but I'm looking at some diagrams right now and I think the starter motor is mounted to the transmission. If so, there's no way to start this engine to test it out. If that's the case, is there anything left I can do? Can I do a compression test if I turn it by hand?

Thanks again.

[layback40]

If you can start it , You can place a large towel or other cloth that is soaked in water (dripping wet) over the exhaust, this will act as a muffler so use can hear the motor. I have used an old bed sheet, it works well.

[junqueyardjim]

Some of the replies indicate that it is no problem to take a diesel in unknown condition, tied to a pallet, hook up a battery and fire it up. Don't kid yourself!
Unless you are a half qualified mechanic and really understand the engine you are totally wasting your time and possibly setting yourself up for injury in trying it. Don't do it! Fine one in a chassis that will run and they are hard enough to test out. But forget about running any engine tied to a pallet.

[dagObx]

Originally Posted by 81Wagon

The engine is cooled by a closed, freshwater coolant system to keep from having to run seawater through the engine itself (I guess there's a separate seawater pump & heat exchanger). Does that mean it won't suck water from a bucket? Should I just find some way to hook a hose directly into it?

In my experience with marine diesels, if the freshwater cooling system is intact you can run the engine for short periods of time (no more that 2-3 min.) without any damage. The water pump impellor will be in the fresh water system, so no problem with lubrication. That should be enough time for you to do some minor diagnosis to the engine.

OTOH, if the RAW water pump (the one that brings outside water into the system) is still on the engine, you will need to supply that with water to at least preserve the impellor. A water hose should do OK.

As I recall, Westerbeke is a hearty little engine, without electronics to fool with. If it ran before it was laid up, there is a good chance it will now. Good new fuel & good battery should be all it needs to fire up, although it may take some cranking to get it to the injectors. Also see if there is some way you can bypass the fuel filter(s) so the new fuel gets to the IP without sucking old fuel/micro critters/water. A couple of lengths of properly sized hose should do the trick.

Maybe HatterasGuy will chime in here, too, as he has experience with marine engines. Good Luck!!

[kerry]

If the engine was properly laid up, 3 years storage should be no problem. A number of times my Ranger 33 has sat for at least 2 years and it's Atomic 4 has always started up when I put it in the water again. It should have been fogged or had oil added to the cylinders prior to storage. But even if it didn't, in my opinion, odds are it is in roughly the same condition now as it was when it was stored unless it was stored in a very damp environment.

The biggest question is why it was removed from a boat. People rarely remove perfectly good engines from boats unless they were underpowered to start with or are switching from gas to diesel. I'd want to talk to the guy who pulled the engine.

[BlueMax]

I have a running pull out I have yet to advertise. A yanmar 3Qm30H 33hp with gear, panel and muffler. I have a shaft & martec prop to go with it. No hour meter but I would estimate 2300 hours. Ran very nicely and used .75 GPH to power a 21000lb sloop. This boat goes offshore for racing and a newer, lighter, more powerful 47 hp yanmar was installed. The old engine primarly powered the boat out of the slip and into the bay where we then shut it down and sail. We used the diesel mainly to charge the batteries while underway.
I have considered keeping it as a means to produce power via a generator for my home because I am concerned with the Cap & trade legelation currently being debated.

The reasons for changing it out are simple... The engine & gear weighed 590lbs The new one weighs 420lbs. The engine needed a simple repair to the block that could not be done on the boat. It did not make sense to pay all that money for the crane to lift it out of the boat and take the boat out of service for that long without entertaining the logistics of installing a new one. The use of the boat has changed and now does more cruising and was in need of larger diesel that produced hot water for showers & heat for those fall and spring weekends.

Please contact me if you are interested. By the way the head on the engine was changed out about 10 years ago with a brand new one from mac boring in Union Nj. seems there was a zinc that did not get changed with all the others. This engine is all cast Iron but the pan is a machined aluminum. also have spares .. Injectors, gaskets etc

This is a ready to run diesel with a gear 2:1

[81Wagon]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I've sent the seller a list of further questions and he's supposed to be getting back to me soon with some pics.

BlueMax, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be talking to a boat mechanic about the situation soon. (I really know next to nothing about boats!) Since we want to get this done as cheaply as possible it seems the best idea would be to drop in an identical engine. This boat also has a v-drive which I gather can be an added hassle. I'll keep you in mind though!

[BlueMax]

81 Wagon

Do not let a V drive scare you. All that means is the engine flyweel faces forward and the trans does a 180 degree shaft output at a downward angle. The engines are all pretty standard and you probably can re use the trans or gear if you will. It is a nice system.

Each Engine has a spec sheet that you can get online. All you need to do is look at the footprint for the engine mounts. They are all within one half inch of each other and your engine mounting stringers should accept a wide variety of engines. The vibration mounts ( very Important) are stamped with a stiffness. You can get these from Pyacht on line. the side of the engine in which it turns will get stiffer ones then the opposite side

I do not know the size of your boat but figure 1 hp per 500 lbs of displacement.

My engine may not the one you need but If you go online to diesel trader.com there is this german guy out in wisconsin that can help you out. he has all makes and models and can tell you what your gear will bolt up to. He will want your old one for a core.

I got the estimate from my yard installation and I just about fell out of my chair. I did it myself in a weekend. I used the main boom with a come-along to lift out the old one onto the dock. And then the new one in. alighnment to the flange is what took all the time.

It is not like changing the engine in a car it is pretty straight forward.

Also Mid-atlantic diesel in Virgina.. Westerbeake dealer with used & reconditioned ones.

[81Wagon]

Originally Posted by BlueMax

I got the estimate from my yard installation and I just about fell out of my chair. I did it myself in a weekend. I used the main boom with a come-along to lift out the old one onto the dock. And then the new one in. alighnment to the flange is what took all the time.

Thanks for the advice. It's a ~36 foot boat, and the current Westerbeke is 25HP so I assume anything around that would be okay. It's good to hear the transmission might be reusable on another engine.

The mechanic that looked at it the other day told us it'd be around 5 grand to R&R the engine. I had a sailor friend check it out after that because he's gone the DIY route just like you did, and he took one look at how tight the engine is packed into this boat and said it would be incredibly difficult . We're persistent though!