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  #16  
Old 01-13-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Exclusive View Post
rings are what I'm thinking, I'm just curious to hear some horror stories about Veg conversions. We didn't install the kit, apparently this guy filters his own oil.
I think its hard enough trying to figure out whats wrong with an engine when its running on regular diesel with no modifications, without throwing in more unknowns when it comes to running veg.. Guy filters his own, an unknown veg conversion, quality of fuel, etc.. Apparently he saved himself a few bucks running veggie, and now he will have to spend a lot more to try and get it fixed. Either that, or it will end up in a junk yard to be used for scrap. If this guy is willing to pay the bucks to have you diagnose his problem, then have a go at it, if not, I would tell him to take in somewhere else.

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  #17  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:27 PM
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Hate to even venture into given the propensity for pointless arguments.. however, in the interest of salvaging the car..

I've had no problems running WVO for the past 10 years in a pretty broad range of vehicles, but just worked through the first significant problem with my '99 E300 after 30,000 miles on WVO. In my case the engine ran fine but developed significant blowby sufficient to blow the dipstick out of its tube, followed by plenty of engine oil. This of course only happened under load/boost and as I said, the engine ran fine in all other respects. Never had this problem with older Mercedes, older and newer VW's, BMW, Isuzu, UD, or Cummins... just the 606 engine. Through searches found this to be a common problem on 606 engines running WVO - not certain just why, yet. Solution - thanks to a post on a UK vegoil site - was to mist water into the intake. In my case I inserted a spray nozzle into the intake boot ahead of the turbo (short term only of course) and used a washer pump to spray windshield washer fluid while cruising at about 70 mph/ 2500 rpm. Used about a gallon over 40 miles, shut off the pump before slowing down. Problem corrected. I have since also disarmed the EGR (thanks to a great thread here), installed a slightly hotter thermostat, and added water/methanol injection just in case (and because we've increased the boost and likely EG temps). So far so good.

**We measured crankcase pressure before and after the fix by connecting a pressure gauge in place of the dipstick. Pressure had reached 15 psi before the water mist, now stays at zero.

Hope this helps.
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2010, 04:01 PM
Fredmburgess's Avatar
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...apart from the horror stories, more often than not I find problems are the simple things like air getting into fuel lines,etc., which can of course be made worse by trying to pull a higher viscosity fuel (too cool WVO, for example) through fuel lines or through a clogged filter. Rubber fuel system components (delivery valve seals, fuel line and shut off valve O-rings if applicable), and fuel hose should have been changed to viton or teflon during the conversion as WVO soften them in time.

Might be something simple -even if caused by running WVO - rather than stuck rings and such.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:39 PM
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It’s important that the car is switched over only when the car is at least 180 degrees. You can’t switch over unless the engine is at operating temperature. You will also need to find out how clean the wvo is. You have to find out if they have any and I mean ANY water in the oil. They have to do a fry pan test. Heat the pan up to 250 degrees and pure a small amount of the wvo in the pan. If you see any bubbles you have water if you hear any crackling you have water. Pump out all the wvo and start over.
The system has to have its own filter. That means the diesel has it’s filter and the wvo has another filter. Every kit has to have a purging system that pushing un-used wvo back to the wvo tank and flushes the system with diesel. Then the driver needs to drive on diesel for at least ½ mile to make sure the wvo is out of the system. I have more clients that are in need of repairs to their system, or for me to completely redesign the system.
Your going to need to run a diesel purge or cleaner through the system to clean up the injectors and pump. If you still have power lose or problems you might want to look into the injectors. They have a problem getting coked up if you don’t heat up the wvo.
I’ve heard of people pouring in some ATF or Brake Fluid into the cylinders to free up the rings if that is the issue. But you will also need to change out the oil and oil filter once you completed the job.
Good luck, and don’t give up hope on WVO. I’ve been driving for 5 years on WVO and I’ve been installing kits for 3 years. If you do it right, it’s a valid fuel choose.

Please post back on what you find I’ll be happy to help.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpernell View Post
I think its hard enough trying to figure out whats wrong with an engine when its running on regular diesel with no modifications, without throwing in more unknowns when it comes to running veg.. Guy filters his own, an unknown veg conversion, quality of fuel, etc.. Apparently he saved himself a few bucks running veggie, and now he will have to spend a lot more to try and get it fixed. Either that, or it will end up in a junk yard to be used for scrap. If this guy is willing to pay the bucks to have you diagnose his problem, then have a go at it, if not, I would tell him to take in somewhere else.
this isn't the first time this customer has tried to save a few bucks. Last year he tried to replace a vacuum pump, his pump timing was way off, obviously it broke and fragments went through the motor. We ended up replacing the oil pump,pan and some other stuff. Now after seeing this car, I'm kind of hesitant to reccomend/ install these Veg oil kits. He has a greasecar kit. But also I have another customer who has made his own setup, he's just a little broke right now to finish it up.
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:48 PM
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You may wish to have a read of this & contact these people. They are being scientific about it.

http://www.ncat.org/special/oilseeds_innovations4.php
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1984 300D 500k miles
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2010, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
You may wish to have a read of this & contact these people. They are being scientific about it.

http://www.ncat.org/special/oilseeds_innovations4.php
That link doesn't work. I've tried it at work and at home, on a PC and a Mac and it no workie.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2010, 09:59 PM
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Must be a firefox/internet explorer thing. Sorry. Please try copying & pasting it into a google search. thats how I got it the first time. I copied it out of the address bar when it would not open. Sorry every one.
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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2010, 10:10 PM
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Bugger!!!!!! Now the link is not working for me !!!! Maybe it will come back in a few days. It is a report on a field test using SVO in a Kobota tractor in the summer of 2007. The tractor had a SVO/WVO conversion kit (heating etc.). The tractor had similar problems to what is often described on here. They talk about the composition of veg oil. Hopefully it will come back.
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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2010, 10:16 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
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WVO

Mike (In Neu Joirsey)

The best you can hope for is cleaning out the Injectors and IP, Temporarily
(If you can get that far along, successfully)
The "Correct" way would be to pull the Injectors and IP and send them off to
a Bosch Diesel Service Station to be cleaned,repaired and re-calibrated.
[Too much money for your client]
So,next best would be to try running a 50/50 mix of Number Two Diesel and
Commercial Biodiesel,in hopes that the "Bio" portion will help clean out some of the "FUNK" created by the WVO.

With the engine proper the best you can hope for is AGAIN ,Temporarily clean
I'd fill all the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil and let the Engine sit undisturbed for at least 4 days...This MAY unstick the Rings.
[You would ,of course remove all the MMO and change the oil+filter before operating the engine]

Best O' Luck !
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:31 AM
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Water-Injection will cure it, and a LOT less hassle than stripping the engine....

Arrange a mist nozzle to inject plain clean water into the inlet-manifold, and drive fairly hard for around 50 miles whilst misting water at around 150-200mL Per Minute....

Out of curiosity, you can monitor crank-case pressure and progress with a guage at the dipstick-hole....
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:05 PM
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And how often do you have to do this misting?

My buddy has been trying to get me to set up a constant mist. I forgot what the system used.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Exclusive View Post
I've heard around about Veg oil giving people problems. I'm curious to know if anyone else has had Veg oil problems.

I have a car in my shop right now a 124 with a 606 which was on Veg oil. Now the car runs like crap when cold, misfiring and whatnot, low compression. This car is a total mystery, but I'm starting to think its something with the Veg oil. Just wondering if anyone else has had problems.
Leakdown will tell you where the leakage is, pulling an injector will tell you what shape they are in. The IP could be sick too.

Opinions vary widely on how or if vegetable oil can be used as a diesel fuel. Many say Hot engine + hot oil = OK, and Cold start + VO = Uhoh.
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
Bugger!!!!!! Now the link is not working for me !!!! Maybe it will come back in a few days. It is a report on a field test using SVO in a Kobota tractor in the summer of 2007. The tractor had a SVO/WVO conversion kit (heating etc.). The tractor had similar problems to what is often described on here. They talk about the composition of veg oil. Hopefully it will come back.
Yeah, doesn't look good for elsbett, does it? 2 tank people give this as a reason for a 2 tank setup.
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All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times
It's hard to
more likely to
concentrate on
have an accident
two things
when you're on
at the same time.
a cell phone.


www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?
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  #30  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur View Post
And how often do you have to do this misting?

My buddy has been trying to get me to set up a constant mist. I forgot what the system used.
Really couldnt say....

All I know is that W.I 'cures' the stuck ring issue, known on the 605 and 606 engines...
--No reason it wont 'cure' other gummed up engines caused by WVO that I can think of....

Best bet would not to let the rings get gummed in the first place!--ie, Make Proper BioDiesel fuel outta that nasty WVO and make it WELL!--Thats the most Safe and effective way to 'use' WVO as fuel, and you dont have to worry about modding up the vehicle or messing up the engine.

Using WVO as it is (not making BioDiesel) is a minefield. Do it Right and you'll have little problem, Do it Wrong (And a LOT do!) and it'll bite you in the ass Every Time!
Unfortunately, There is just SO much total guff on the 'web as to supposedly how 'easy it is to use WVO as fuel'.....

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W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....
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