Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 01-18-2010, 02:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 100
I called another mechanic I trust and he said he thinks the injectors are "dumping" to much fuel. He wants me to bring it in. Is that something that can be adjusted?

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
I think as the injector techs like to call it, "hosing" where the nozzle doesn't properly atomize the fuel, cold, it's a huge problem, warm, it leads to detonation. Yes, diesel detonate just like their petrol cousins.

Also, dumping per say comes from low pop off pressures and it is adjustable
by changing shims against the spring inside the nozzle

Update:
Injectors are out, MADE IN INDIA! I think that code for junk. One heat shield totally crusty with carbon, all others fairly clean.

Stay tuned. Photos coming.
__________________
Mark
========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE

Last edited by markg612; 01-18-2010 at 04:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-18-2010, 03:58 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
Diesel Purge

Another Poster above has already stated "In Town" Diesel is "C**P.

I'd try some Straight LM Diesel Purge from a Small self made "Bottle" to
see if that clears them up.

Also pick up some RedLine 85 Plus Diesel additive.
(It'll raise the Cetane and clean the Injectors from the Tank end of things.)

A "Mechanic" who wants you to "Bring It In" for "Perceived" bad Injectors
will only R+R yours (AND/OR R+R the Nozzles) without cleaning first.
[No money in cleaning ,AND he'll not have the Very Expensive Equipment
to clean them properly]

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1284940-liqui-moly-diesel-purge-done.html

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=87948

http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/parts/miscellaneous/lubro_moly_diesel_additive.html?3593=70155&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=adv&3593=70155&3671=1002
Attached Thumbnails
606 starts fast and perfect, smokes and misses till warm-screenhunter_01-jan.-18-15.55.jpg   606 starts fast and perfect, smokes and misses till warm-screenhunter_02-jan.-18-15.57.gif  
__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 357
Check the compressions.

These engines can suffer inlet valve recession, particularly on the rearmost cylinders.

The engine fires on the good compressions of the forward cylinders, and is OK during afterglow, but, once the current to the glow plugs stops, the cool rearmost cylinders are no longer compressing enough to get hot enough to burn the fuel well - resulting in rough running and smoking.

As a quick check, take the inlet manifold off, plug any vac pipes, secure anything that's loose, and start the engine up - if the valves have sunk into the head far enough to lose compression, you'll see exhaust smoke chuffing back out of the inlet ports.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-18-2010, 09:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
The soot layer in the #6 intake ports in the head (I have the intake off because the resonance valve has half of the vain broken off for the second time) is substantially heavier than the the other cylinders.

Ugh, I haven't thought about valve recession since powerplant theory 30 years ago in A & P school. That would completely explain the lack of oil consumption and low compression cold. Good call, injectors are back Thursday, test run results to follow. . . .

#1 cylinder heat shield had a huge amount of carbon on the prechamber side compared to the all the others, also, the burn pattern on the injector face was irregular compared to the other 5. Cross fingers, I don't have my head wrapped around a valve job yet, but my fear is it's time.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 100
Could another culprit possibly be my injection pump needs timing? Just throwing stuff at the wall. Poured a bottle of Redline 85 plus in the tank tonight (1/2 tank left) and took the car for a 60 mile high speed trip to maybe blow out some bad stuff . Probably didn't do ****, but I enjoyed a quiet evening on I-57 south of Chicago. I'll see if anything is different tomorrow morning.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-19-2010, 10:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
I'm thinking pump timing would be effecting all modes of operation, which once it's warm are perfect. . .

Injectors are in Crown Point this AM, should know something this afternoon regarding condition.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 128
I am having the same problem, intermittantly, with my '95 E300D.. new to me.
3 times so far, all at or below freezing.
Clears up at normal operating temperature.
Some bubbles in lines. Will have to recheck lines when warmed up.
Starts instantly, any temperature, and doesn't start the stumbling for a good 3-4 minutes, then clears up in another 2-3.
I'll be watching this thread..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 100
Good news. Red Line 85 plus (same as Red Line Diesel Catalyst per Redline Co. rep) and a good hour of steady speeds in the 75-85 range seemed to have cleaned out my injectors. I had no missing or heavy smoke of any kind upon cold start up this morning. I hope I have found my solution. Based on all I have read, I think I will continue to use smaller doses of Red Line upon fill ups. It seems to have a great reputation on the internet.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Nobody has explicitly said this but the afterglow feature is why the cars having these problems run well for the first few minutes. The GPs help when combustion is marginal for whatever reason. Depending on conditions, afterglow can stay on for around 2-5 minutes.

If it were my car I would pull the injectors and have them pop tested, and while out perform a cold compression test on the car. It is either poor fuel injection quality or low compression that causes this is my guess and doing both will tell you which it is.
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-20-2010, 06:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 357
>>The soot layer in the #6 intake ports in the head (I have the intake off because the resonance valve has half of the vain broken off for the second time) is substantially heavier than the the other cylinders.

I'm sorry, but, this tallys exactly with what I found on my OM606 when the inlet valve seats had sunk into the head. If you do run the engine with the manifold off, you'll probably see the exhaust smoke chuffing back out of these ports, and the other cylinders will be OK.

In my case, I took the head off, and had new seats pressed in to cylinders number 5 and 6 - if there are dark sopts on the grey surface of the seats, it's a sign of a metallurgical change which means they will soon fail. In my case, the seats on No 6 had sunk badly, and the seats on No 5 were badly spotted. The seats on the other cylinders were fine.

I fitted 12 new inlet valves, had new nozzles fitted to the injectos while they were out, and completed the job with a spend of £800 on parts and machining. £200 of this cost was for the new nozzles.

It's worth checking the crankcase breather system out carefully, because this oil mist is virtually the only lubrication these inlet valves get, and the routing for the rear most cylinders is a little convoluted. The rubber elbows which push into the manifold are prone to blocking up.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-20-2010, 11:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
Bad news, all the injectors past muster perfect, "They were near perfect, less than 50PSI between all with perfect spray pattern," Matt from MDI was happy to say. Ugh--The shop's suggesting air in the delivery stream up stream of the pump, hence the initial first run smoothness followed by the ruff run. I'm think number_cruncher is spot on, but I'm going to chase the air issue first and then face reality!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-23-2010, 12:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
Chasing air issues now in low pressure side of fuel delivery system. There is a check valve of sorts in the return line just below the filter housing that was added by MB due to "starting issues"--This $70 gem that might be the culprit here. It holds fuel in the return line and keeps it fuel from falling back to the tank when the vehicle is off. If it has failed, any air leak up top would allow the a huge bubble to form in the filter and would cause massive smoking and missing until it cleared. . . More later.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-23-2010, 01:23 PM
JimmyL's Avatar
Rogue T Intolerant!!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Texas (DFW)
Posts: 9,675
Why only when cold weather?
__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-23-2010, 01:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Bay Area via Phoenix, Chicago and Minnesota.
Posts: 377
The cold weather exacerbates the issue. A cold start on an 80° day, it does the same thing, but not near the smoke and it clears much quicker.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page