Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 33
Help lots of blue smoke

Story begins with me headed to school and making it approx. 4 miles away when i see lots of smoke out the rear and shes running poorly at idle.

So I take out the injectors and find that two of the four are plugged up real bad. So I decide to take the injectors apart and see if i can free them up by cleaning them. So i take the injectors apart and clean them as best as possible. While the injectors are out i decide to check the glow plugs. The glow plugs visually look good and with the injectors cleaned/freed up back together the parts go.

Of course now the engine will not even start. So I decide to put new nozzles into the injectors.

I build the bottle jack pop-tester and get new Monark nozzles. Everything goes fine till i break one of the nozzles pintel and have to wait for a replacement. Today I get the injectors all popping within 1.7 bars of each other and reinstall them in the car. bleed the lines and still no firing.

So out comes the glow plugs to check them out. very first glow-plug is no good so I remedy the problem and reinstall them.

Glowed the engine and she fires right up.

Problem being is there is allot of blueish smoke now and a knock that I don't remember.

Could this be a blown head gasket? Cracked head? I noticed what looked like oil in #4 cylinder when I did a compression test.

I had 390 on all 3 cylinders and the cylinder with the oil had 395 with the engine cold.

Could I have changed the timing enough from rebuilding the injectors to cause the massive smoke out the back end? I never did a pop-pressure check before i put the new nozzles in but two of the injectors, after lapping them, were at 124 bar and the other 2 were at 112 bar.

No oil in the water and no water in the oil

This is an om615 in my 66 200d if that helps

__________________
For everything I've ever done there has always been a first time.

66 MB 200d
65 VW T2 Deluxe
76 VW T2 Westfalia
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 3,851
Blue smoke means you're definately burning engine oil. The compression results make me think it's not the head gasket or a cracked head. That leaves valve seals or a ring/piston problem. I'm assuming you have had normal oil pressure at all times so far. This makes me lean toward a failed ring in cylinder #4. I would suggest redoing the compression test wet, but it sounds like poor oil control is making #4 "wet" anyway.
__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 33
Not sure what you mean by wet test.

I thought that perhaps trying to start it with faulty GP's and fuel being delivered could of filled the exhaust with unburnt fuel and oil. Therefore allot of smoke... so much for wishful thinking, I let her run for at least 1/2 hour varying rpm's and well the smoke did seem to lessen a little at higher rpms it was still smoking a lot with the most smoke when i let the car idle. Big cloud of smoke

Does this sound like valve seals or should i just plan on removing the head.

I've never removed a diesel head before or even an overhead cammed engine head before so i am a little nervous about the timing chain and timing issue.
__________________
For everything I've ever done there has always been a first time.

66 MB 200d
65 VW T2 Deluxe
76 VW T2 Westfalia
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Do not get too concerned yet. If the vaccum pump developes a leak it will feed oil into the intake on the older engines. Look at the vaccum pump discharge line going back to wherever it goes on an old model like yours. To make vacuum remember the air has to be expelled somewhere.

If the line is wet with oil internally that is the issue. Actually you can just disconnect it and see if oil comes out of it or the engine stops smoking. For an old timer your engine compression sounds good. At least far better than most.

Also the injection pump is a little different on those earlier models. There is some kind of vaccum issue possible there that may put oil into the lines as well.

I do not think you have a vacuum feed to the transmission if automatic in that year so you cannot suck up transmission fluid and burn that.

I am also pretty sure you know that the injection pump has its own internal oil supply that far back. Change that oil at the recommended intervals. It probably does not hold much. If it has a way of checking the oil level. Finding it still full you then would know thats not where your oil is coming from as well.

Best overall bet is a failed vacuum pump diaphram.

Last edited by barry123400; 03-04-2010 at 05:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Do not get too concerned yet. If the vaccum pump developes a leak it will feed oil into the intake on the older engines.
Interesting. When the pump diaphragm went out on my 240D, the oil made its way to the air cleaner housing, and then proceeded to drain out of the drain holes in the bottom. It took me a while to figure out why my air cleaner had an oil leak.

Are the 615 air intake and vacuum exhaust plumbed differently from my 616?
__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Interesting. When the pump diaphragm went out on my 240D, the oil made its way to the air cleaner housing, and then proceeded to drain out of the drain holes in the bottom. It took me a while to figure out why my air cleaner had an oil leak.

Are the 615 air intake and vacuum exhaust plumbed differently from my 616?
I do not know but suspect they are. Mercededs eventually changed that set up for quite a few reasons I believe. Putting the vacuum output back into the crankcase eventually If I remember.

I know nothing about the 615 other than this gentleman is posting almost new compression numbers. I do not even know if his engine is as tough as the 616. At one time their diesels where not.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 33
This is in a 66 200d. A P.O. changed to the om615 at some time with a four on the flour manual. Not sure if the car was original with the floor shifter or not.

I redid the vacuum pump about 3 months ago but will check it again.

When the injectors were out i filled the IP till oil was coming out the bolt/check level. I wonder if i overfilled the IP? I will also check that.

Feeling a Little frustrated/humbled by this problem and feeling even more broke than usual.

I've searched for some kind of tutorial of the head removal with pics but i can't seem to find what i am looking for. Really concerned about the timing chain.
__________________
For everything I've ever done there has always been a first time.

66 MB 200d
65 VW T2 Deluxe
76 VW T2 Westfalia
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Feeling broke is a state of mind. Replacing it with temporarily being low on funds works far better mentally. Some people can never feel broke while others can wallow in it. This last part does not apply to you of course. I believe the old classical expression was low on funds.

When I was young I really could never feel broke really. It just provided the initiative to make more as soon as possible. I kid you not.

Life is full of what can be described as emotional potholes. It all depends how the individual views them from his perspective. Oddly enough you rebuilding the vacuum pump three months ago might actually increase the chances of it being the problem. Not that it is just the odds of it believe it or not.

We all have some internal inertias to overcome from time to time in my opinion. Like when I find myself procastinating or making a misteak. As hard as it is I instinctivly know it will remain until I deal with it.

That is the philosophy I have to employ to overcome the situation. It is hard sometimes but the basic rules never change. I know at this moment I will soon make a misteak. I also know that I will deal with it as fast as possible. This is from the simple understanding that defferment will do more harm to me than a qjuick rectification of the issue.

If I was really smart I am pretty sure of two things. I would probably not mention these approaches as they would not be required. Since there would be no misteaks either I would not be aware of them as well.

This being average at best can be a killer if not dealt with on an ongoing basis.

Last edited by barry123400; 03-04-2010 at 05:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 33
still having issues.

its not the vacuum pump. Removed the line going to the intake from the vacuum pump and there was no reduction in the billowing smoke.

Could the IP be pump its oil into the injectors somehow? Would i check by running the return fuel line out of the fuel filter into a clear jar to look for oil or am I just asking for trouble?

I still don't see water in the oil, but i swear i smelt hot water/antifreeze on the dip stick. Could this be a blown head gasket? Also I took off the valve cover and noticed what looked to be grayish oil on the inside of the valve cover. I am assuming this is water and oil together in small amount due to condensation since the car hasn't been driven in over a month +.

If i removed the head is there a way to tell if i have a broken ring without dismantling the bottom end. If i have to turn the engine over with the head off how do you keep the cam, crank, and IP all in time?
__________________
For everything I've ever done there has always been a first time.

66 MB 200d
65 VW T2 Deluxe
76 VW T2 Westfalia
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2010, 12:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
The pressure oil feed to the head is around the number four cylinder. Remove the glow plug or injector. If injector back off the hard line nut to eliminate injector spray from the situation.

Have someone crank the car with you watching for oil spray being expelled from the hole. Change the headgasket if oil sprays out. The rapid onset of the problem and the oily appearance of the number four cylinder indicate the head gasket has probably let go.


Last edited by barry123400; 03-10-2010 at 12:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page