"R12-replacement" - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dablk1 · #1 04-06-2010, 12:12 AM

Has anyone had any luck with other refrigerants being used in the original R12 system other than R12? I do not want to hear about conversions, I am only inquiring about refrigerant(s). Please, and again please...I do not want to hear about 134 conversions.

JamesDean · #2 04-06-2010, 12:21 AM

see this
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=63919&highlight=freeze12

Rudolf_Diesel · #3 04-06-2010, 12:38 AM

A buddy of mine replaced my R12 with R409a it is a direct replacement for R12 and only requires removing the R12 - no other changes are neccessary.

dablk1 · #4 04-06-2010, 12:42 AM

How long has he been using the stuff Rudolph. Can I pick some up tomorrow if need be? Is it only available throug mail order?

pchbreeze · #5 04-06-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dablk1

How long has he been using the stuff Rudolph. Can I pick some up tomorrow if need be? Is it only available throug mail order?

There are a world of "drop in" replacements but if you don't know where to get them, you won't be able to get them. Simply put, you'll need to be a HVAC/R technician to buy the stuff.

I need the stuff myself but don't want to buy it because they usually come in 25-30lb cylinders.

One thing to keep in mind is that these replacements are 'blends' and not ideal for automotive applications because they do separate (the refrigerants). They will not operate at proper pressures, so if the sensors for cut-out are by pressure instead of temperature (they usually are), you can expect it to get not as cold...OR the opposite. If the pressure is lower than normal you run the risk of icing your evaporator.

R409a would work... http://www.downriversupply.com/PDFs/p_t_chart.pdf ...but if you want to get technical, any refrigerant will work as long as it mixes with the oil.

dablk1 · #6 04-06-2010, 01:06 AM

I looked at the chart. It might as well have been written in Chinese. None of it make sense to me. Thanks for te info. I'll share it with someone that can tell me what it means.

Rudolf_Diesel · #7 04-06-2010, 01:09 AM

My buddy is an HVAC tech. The reason you have to remove the R-12 is that if you don't then you have a hybrid gas and you will not know the characteristics of the gas i.e., pressures. I don't know if you can just go and buy it, but it is what I did.

dablk1 · #8 04-06-2010, 01:14 AM

I don't have a problem with removing it. It was just that the chart attached to your previous post was confusing. I ave no way to evacuate the system' so I will let the professionals do that and I want to supply them with the refrigerant of my choice. I called a few today and all of them seemed pretty unfamiliar...I got all sorts of responses. Probably a bunch of younger guys who weren't evem born while R12 was still being widely used.

dablk1 · #9 04-06-2010, 11:40 AM

Anyone else care to chime in?

C Sean Watts · #10 04-06-2010, 12:04 PM

If you are not sure about how to do it, DO NOT try it. I'm not playing 'gotcha' but I read your comment about the conversion number chart. I got my 609 cert. a few years ago and I actually had to study to get it, so don't feel too lost about it

. It can definitely be done by the DIYer BUT getting the numbers right is important and combining the wrong oils and refrigerants will, at least, destroy seals & hoses and at most, make a very toxic gas (phosgene) and kill you.

MANY of the 'replacement' mixes on the market are flammable and some are even illegal for use in cars. I have no idea how the makers get and keep them on the market but they do. Real freon is still out there, you just have to go to the right place(s).

It took a while to find this, from a few years ago. This should still be on the forum.

Here's a grossly oversimplified picture of what happens.

leathermang · #11 04-06-2010, 12:19 PM

Listen to Sean...

You are probably wrong about those AC guys being young ... they probably do not study or--- MORE IMPORTANT.. HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO DEAL WITH REFRIGERANTS OTHER THAN the standards... R134a and R12... when they put out big dollars to buy those machine to do the job correctly they really do not want to contaminate them ...which is another reason to follow the EPA rules about putting the ' fixtures' ...the installation fittings which go with each of the types of refrigerants... and to be kind you should also glue on a label so people can tell what they are working with..

May I ask why you want to change from R12 to something else ?

Are you under the impression the cost is prohibitive ?

Are you worried you can not pass the OPEN BOOK internet test which costs about $20 ( TWENTY DOLLARS ).... to get which allows you to buy refrigerants yourself ?

There are many of those AC charts which I can not read.... but if you stick with R12 you do not need to read them...

okyoureabeast · #12 04-06-2010, 12:32 PM

Become 609 certified. Use CTRL-F to find your answers

leathermang · #13 04-06-2010, 12:39 PM

LOL, I think control F only finds those things ON THAT Page....
but the search feature at the top of the page finds either posts or threads already discussed on the forum.... a very worthy feature...

dablk1 · #14 04-06-2010, 12:51 PM

Let me clear this up. I'm not interested in changing anything. I've been trying to find R12. Shops don't use it nor have the proper equipment to charge my system. Let me make this plain and simple. I live in Maryland. If anyone knows of someone that can charge my system with R12 please let me know. The only reason I was inquiring about a substitute is simply because I can't get R12. I am not buying a 30lb jug for $500 or something like that.

leathermang · #15 04-06-2010, 01:33 PM

You may be surprised at how close R12 is to you... even in 12 oz cans...
at our local O'Reilly's if you ask the counter clerk for it.. they do not even know they have it...and then those that do know they have it are not aware of the open book internet test to get the proper license... I took the info in to our local one... so they know...but they did not before I ' educated ' them...
So, ask the manager of local auto parts shops if they have it...and if they know about the license... and how much it is...
and report back... we will find you R12 at a reasonable price... most people are not wanting it now... due to the car manufactures all changing over the R134a... so demand is down... but efficiency still lies with what MB sold you the car installed with...