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View Poll Results: choose wisely...Auto or Manual?
Auto 5 10.00%
Manual 45 90.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:39 PM
markho's Avatar
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Talking The Ultimate Auto Versus Manual Thread?

I've seen it on the bmw forums how angry manual to auto drivers are, pretty funny. the manual drivers over there berate the auto guys.
auto is easy to use, but manual is just the ultimate with driver in full control. I have an auto now, but I used to drive vw, f150, nissan stick. I liked the auto but now i miss the manual again!

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  #2  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:52 PM
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If it's a five speed diesel I'd say manual. My awesome shifting auto is too good to change. If it's a poor shifting auto, then a four manual might be worth it, but so would a simple adjustment to the auto.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:17 PM
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i'm not bashing either one. I like both.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:38 PM
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I have no problem with a well-functioning auto-box, but only a few of the various W123 & older automatic Benzes I've owned or driven, fit into this category.
My Mom used to have a '70 automatic 250 sedan that performed flawlessly, a friend of a friend had an auto '70 250C that ran like a scalded cat (apologies to cat-lovers), a ladyfriend had an autobox '76 280S that performed remarkably well considering the two-ton car, with 'park-bench' bumpers, was being propelled only by a desmoggged & carbed 2.8 six, and I've even driven a couple of automatic 240Ds that I could live with.
But many older Mercedes automatics I've experienced have been sluggish (most 240Ds), quirky-jerky (my '66 230 Fintail, a friend's '68 280S), or both (my first, automatic 240D).
So now my preference in an old Benz is for the manual-tranny, even with a column-shift. I still remember how much I enjoyed test-driving a '69 280S 4-speed column-shift many years go. And the tired manual '60 Fintail 220S I drove for a few years, was certainly a more enjoyable performer, than my previous automatic Fintail. Currently, I also own an '84 Euro 5-speed 300TD and a solid '82 4-speed stick 240D. As a friend, and onetime owner of a '68 stick-shift 280SE, once told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stick!"

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 06-01-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:41 PM
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While I personally swapped in a 4-spd manual into my 300CD, I have to say MB has some of the worst "shift mechanisms." Rubbery feel and incredibly long throw... however I'll still take it over an automatic transmission for the time being.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2010, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwpowere36m3 View Post
While I personally swapped in a 4-spd manual into my 300CD, I have to say MB has some of the worst "shift mechanisms." Rubbery feel and incredibly long throw... however I'll still take it over an automatic transmission for the time being.
I've heard some complaints about the W123 manual-shifter.
Certainly the 5-speed shifter in my Euro TD was stiff and unpleasent until I lubed the lever pivot, And the shifter in my 4-speed 240D was similarly stiff, as well as quite sloppy until I lubed it and replaced the rod-end bushings, which greatly tightened-up the throws.
The best manual-shifters I've enjoyed were the floorshift 4-speeds in my '61 Hillman Super-Minx, and my '67 Sunbeam Alpine.
While not that good, the W123 shifters are much better than some other manuals I've experienced, like for exampe, almost any late '60s -'70s American column-shift - a diabolical device, obviously designed to force car-buyers into automatics, and some early FWD floorshifts like those on early '70s Audis, or almost any Renault floorshift up into the '80s. Actually the columnshift on the Ponton 180, that I learned to shift on, was far more tight and precise, than the floorshift of any Renault that I can recall.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2010, 11:26 PM
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The MB auto-trannies are very robust, if cared for they last practically as long as the manuals!
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2010, 11:31 PM
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I miss the 6-spd stick in my '02 GTI (sold).

I hated the 5-spd in my '04 V6 Passat (hail totaled it)

I don't mind my 4-spd slushbox in the 300td, as long as it's shifting smoothly.

I think my next ride will be a 3-spd lawnmower. I keep dropping gears.
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2010, 12:00 AM
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The autobox in my '98 Altima still works great after 180K miles, and the one in a friend's '90 300E was a pleasure up to around 200K, though by then that car had other issues.
While I think I've had more than my share of problems with Mercedes automatics, my main gripe is that many of the old ones just don't work that well. And many tranny-shops just see $$$$$ when one enquires about repairing a Benz autobox.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2010, 05:58 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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I love a stick. 5 speed in my 83 240/300d....6 speed in my dodge truck.

Too bad my left knee is crapping out on me. I may have to switch to autos one of these days!
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2010, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I love a stick. 5 speed in my 83 240/300d....6 speed in my dodge truck.

Too bad my left knee is crapping out on me. I may have to switch to autos one of these days!
Did you do the 240/300D-5-speed transplant yourself, and where did you find the parts?

Last year, I was visiting the Virginia Beach Pick-N-Pull with my 5-speed TD, when I spotted a 300D - apparently a Euro, with a 5-speed and manual heat/AC - in the parking lot.
So I waited for the owner to get back from his rounds in the yard. Turns out the owner was retired military, and his car started life as a stick 240D. When the original engine needed replacing, his mechanic happened to stumble across a Euro 5-speed parts-car. Probably not that unusual, with all the service-persons returning to the Tidewater area from overseas. (There were two Euro 123s in the Pick-N-Pull last year, including a wagon) So the 240D got a transplant. Wished I'd gotten his name and more details, but the jets from the nearby airbase made it almost impossible to sustain a conversation.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2010, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwpowere36m3 View Post
While I personally swapped in a 4-spd manual into my 300CD, I have to say MB has some of the worst "shift mechanisms." Rubbery feel and incredibly long throw... however I'll still take it over an automatic transmission for the time being.
They are actually pretty easy to make into a short shift. Part of the problem with the MB stick mechanism in my view is that its simply an old external linkage design on the older cars. You have those three levers on the bottom of the shifter, and they are exposed to the elements and can rust and screw up the feel of the shift.

To make a short shift, you can cut the levers on the stick, and lengthen them. I did about 3/4s of an inch followings some info from the UK on one of my test shifters I am playing with. There are other issues to consider, like what this means for reverse light activation, maybe the switch has to be moved in further, and what impact this has on the reverse lockout. The lockout seemed to work properly on mine, even with less throw. I have not finished playing though, so don't know myself, but a UK W201 owner can probably tell you!

Also the mechanisms have three different levels of rubber interface, transmission shift arm to linkage rod, linkage rod to shifter lever, and rubber bushing inside stick mechanism to soften the shift.

My rubber bushings were worn out in the stick, so I replaced them with 12 US dimes as an experiment, and it totally changed the feel of going into gear.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2010, 09:58 AM
LarryBible
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This is a thread that's right down my alley!

I am 61 years old and I've been driving a stick since I started driving a hay truck at the age of about 10. I drove a tractor long before that to rake hay, but my GrandDad would get it going and I would just steer until I was finished and then cut it off.

Without stopping to count, I've probably owned and driven about 30 or more cars and all but 3 or 4 have been sticks. After you get past a certain level of experience, you can get in ANYTHING with a stick and drive it with no silly complaints about shifters or clutches provided they are in working order. I get a real giggle when I hear people say that such and such a shifter is rubbery or notchy or something. An experienced stick shifter just never knows the difference.

The down side to being a stick shift lover is the limitation when it comes to finding a car, especially a Benz. Even if you're not shopping for a Benz it makes it difficult to find a car when you have no interest in dealing with the ho hum driving and added maintenance of a slush-o-matic.

Although I would drive a manual even if the maintenance and expense were the same, I really like the fact that I can drain and fill the trans lube about every 100,000 miles and keep on going. Both my 240D's never had any transmission issues although I put a clutch in one of them. My 300E has just reached the half million kilometer mark and still has the factory clutch.

I have been restoring a 64 Ford Galaxie Fastback. In this old car world almost ALL cars have had their stick shifts removed in favor of an automatic. I think most people in the old car world are old people like me. It amazes me that all the other old Farts besides myself are too lazy to shift gears any more. I am probably the only old car fixer upper around that has pulled OUT an automatic and changed it over to a manual. My car now has a three on the tree which is super rare to see these days.

The fun factor, the lack of maintenance factor and the long term reliabilty factor make a manual the ONLY thing for me.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2010, 10:14 AM
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I will always prefer a manual transmission over an automatic. My first two cars were manual, and when I bought my first automatic tranny I didn't know what to do with my right hand and my left foot. They felt like they were just hanging there and pretty useless... When I have more $time$ available I'm doing the swap on both of my cars to manual.
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1983 Toyota Tercel (Tommy, The little Toyota that could)
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1987 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
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  #15  
Old 06-02-2010, 11:04 AM
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I've driven manual tranny cars for years. In high school I had a manual 53 Olds 88, a rare car even in 1960. A good buddy had a black 47 Cady with a manual tranny behind the big honken flat head V8

These manual MBs make driving fun I do realize wouldn't be so fun in a hilly city like Seattle or San Francisco tho.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
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