Lifter replacement and a surprising discovery - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

2.5Turbo · #1 06-10-2010, 12:55 AM

I finally swapped out my ticking lifters today and had to line up my engine to TDC to remove the cam. I lined up the cam marks and looked down at the timing marks and thought it couldn't be right so I rotated it around again. It was closer to the 10 mark than the 0 mark!

It looked to be about 8 degrees off which is surprising considering it runs so well. This was the first time I'd had the valve cover off so it was the first time I'd checked the stretch...I'm getting it in to be replaced next week, and in the mean time I'm finishing other projects on it (K1 spring, washer pump that recently died, new style VP, rear window) and driving the Subaru. I just don't feel I have the skill to confidently roll in a new chain and properly crimp the link. Guess I did have one of those bad 602 chains people talk about

Good news is, the ticking is gone after a few miles of breaking in the new lifters

Bad news is, I broke off a valve cover bolt when putting it back in. It was weird considering I had my torque wrench set to 7 ft-lbs and it hadn't yet clicked before it snapped right off. Luckily a good quarter inch of the bolt was protruding out of the head and I was able to unscrew it with my fingers.

vstech · #2 06-10-2010, 08:49 AM

I like to use an inch pound wrench on the small bolts going into aluminum!
heh, a friend of mine was learning car work from me, and he came and complained that the trans pan bolts were junk, they kept breaking and he had his torque wrench set just where the book said to torque them to. 70Lbs... I'm thinking NO WAY a 5/16" bolt is that high, so I looked at the book, and sure enough it did say 70... but it was INCH pounds...
whenever we get together, I call him inch pounds now!

andrewjtx · #3 06-10-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

whenever we get together, I call him inch pounds now!

That's cold man.

scottmcphee · #4 06-10-2010, 10:55 AM

So how tough a job is R&R lifters in your opinion?
After the cam is out, what happens - suction cup them out and drop news one in? Did you do any seals?

What "pushed you over the edge" on doing this job?

I have some lifter tick, changes with oil temp and viscosity... at idle. Soon as you rev it up, goes away.

winmutt · #5 06-10-2010, 11:07 AM

How loud of a tick was it? My om606 does the same and I would like to fix them.

Diesel911 · #6 06-10-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5Turbo

I finally swapped out my ticking lifters today and had to line up my engine to TDC to remove the cam. I lined up the cam marks and looked down at the timing marks and thought it couldn't be right so I rotated it around again. It was closer to the 10 mark than the 0 mark!

It looked to be about 8 degrees off which is surprising considering it runs so well. This was the first time I'd had the valve cover off so it was the first time I'd checked the stretch...I'm getting it in to be replaced next week, and in the mean time I'm finishing other projects on it (K1 spring, washer pump that recently died, new style VP, rear window) and driving the Subaru. I just don't feel I have the skill to confidently roll in a new chain and properly crimp the link. Guess I did have one of those bad 602 chains people talk about

Good news is, the ticking is gone after a few miles of breaking in the new lifters

Bad news is, I broke off a valve cover bolt when putting it back in. It was weird considering I had my torque wrench set to 7 ft-lbs and it hadn't yet clicked before it snapped right off. Luckily a good quarter inch of the bolt was protruding out of the head and I was able to unscrew it with my fingers.

What make is the Torque Wrench you used?
Someone who previously worked on your Car could have overtorqued the bolt. Sometimes you can look at the break area and see a contrast in old crack and the shiny new area that you expose when you finish the break.

2.5Turbo · #7 06-11-2010, 01:44 AM

Torque wrench was a Craftsman. 7 ft-lbs was almost at the edge of its capability (it goes down to 5) so it could have been a bit off but not off enough to snap a perfectly good valve cover bolt. I looked at the break and it wasn't shiny so I'm guessing it cracked some time in the past and torquing it down finally made it give way. Luckily it didn't break off when trying to take it out...

The tick would come and go, but it ticked more than it didn't. It wasn't all that loud, but it was very noticeable at and just above idle. It seemed to go away at high RPM's but it could have been engine noise drowning it out. When I started using M1 a couple years ago, it shut up all but two. Replaced those and while in there I found a third that was a little squishy...probably going next. Might do the rest of them next time I have it open.

It wasn't too difficult, the only other things I had to remove were the crossover pipe and the actuator for the flapper valve on the intake as it was in the way of one of the valve cover bolts. Make absolutely sure you follow the specified order of R&R-ing the bearing caps as there is quite a bit of pressure on the camshaft from the valve springs on cylinder 4. Zip-tie the chain to the sprocket and loosen the tensioner and you're good to go. There's a peg on the camshaft that fits into the sprocket so there's no chance of losing time unless the chain comes off the sprocket. I used my extendable neodymium magnet to pull out the lifters. Some say you can pull them out with your fingers but I couldn't get a good enough grip on them with gloves and all that oil. I replaced the valve cover gasket because I didn't know how old the original one was because it had been on there for at least six years and 50k miles. I also did the turbo seal ring on the round end of the crossover pipe because I had a new one on hand. The gasket between the crossover and the manifold looked fine so I reused it without any ill effects so far.

jt20 · #8 06-11-2010, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5Turbo

I finally swapped out my ticking lifters today and had to line up my engine to TDC to remove the cam. I lined up the cam marks and looked down at the timing marks and thought it couldn't be right so I rotated it around again. It was closer to the 10 mark than the 0 mark!

It looked to be about 8 degrees off which is surprising considering it runs so well.

I find this method to be a 'guess' .. at best.

Did you look through the sprocket to align the marks, or from above, as you have suggested?

10* on the older engines is 'replacement time'. The only thing you might notice is lack of power (assuming all else is legit) and less-than-stellar MPG)

2.5Turbo · #9 06-11-2010, 03:10 AM

I got the notch on the camshaft and the ridge on the bearing cap lined up as best I could and the flat side of the pointer was at the 8 mark on the balancer. I know it's just an estimate but even with the bit of error using this method it looks to be time to get it in. I haven't noticed a drop in power...but I haven't done a timed 60mph run in a really long time.

jkubica · #10 06-11-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5Turbo

I got the notch on the camshaft and the ridge on the bearing cap lined up as best I could and the flat side of the pointer was at the 8 mark on the balancer. I know it's just an estimate but even with the bit of error using this method it looks to be time to get it in. I haven't noticed a drop in power...but I haven't done a timed 60mph run in a really long time.

Hi
For what its worth, I recently measured my chain stretch. I almost had the marks lined up ( touching but not dead center) and was 10 degrees off. When I finally got the marks dead on - it read 0 degrees. I was very surprised that such a tiny diff in aligning the marks made such a large diff in the degree reading.
Joseph

jt20 · #11 06-11-2010, 10:07 AM

I agree with the post above.

I asked how you lined the notches up because there is a very large difference in accuracy.

If you look at the notches from the front of the engine, and look through the sprocket to see the notch on the other side, then it can be a very good guess.

I used the 2mm valve lift method twice after making this guess and was within .5 degree accuracy of my best guess.

Diesel911 · #12 06-14-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5Turbo

Torque wrench was a Craftsman. 7 ft-lbs was almost at the edge of its capability (it goes down to 5) so it could have been a bit off but not off enough to snap a perfectly good valve cover bolt. I looked at the break and it wasn't shiny so I'm guessing it cracked some time in the past and torquing it down finally made it give way. Luckily it didn't break off when trying to take it out...

The tick would come and go, but it ticked more than it didn't. It wasn't all that loud, but it was very noticeable at and just above idle. It seemed to go away at high RPM's but it could have been engine noise drowning it out. When I started using M1 a couple years ago, it shut up all but two. Replaced those and while in there I found a third that was a little squishy...probably going next. Might do the rest of them next time I have it open.
It wasn't too difficult, the only other things I had to remove were the crossover pipe and the actuator for the flapper valve on the intake as it was in the way of one of the valve cover bolts. Make absolutely sure you follow the specified order of R&R-ing the bearing caps as there is quite a bit of pressure on the camshaft from the valve springs on cylinder 4. Zip-tie the chain to the sprocket and loosen the tensioner and you're good to go. There's a peg on the camshaft that fits into the sprocket so there's no chance of losing time unless the chain comes off the sprocket. I used my extendable neodymium magnet to pull out the lifters. Some say you can pull them out with your fingers but I couldn't get a good enough grip on them with gloves and all that oil. I replaced the valve cover gasket because I didn't know how old the original one was because it had been on there for at least six years and 50k miles. I also did the turbo seal ring on the round end of the crossover pipe because I had a new one on hand. The gasket between the crossover and the manifold looked fine so I reused it without any ill effects so far.

My Craftsmans Torque wrench did that also. I felt at times that I must have overtorqed things due to the wrench not clicking properlybut I was using it closer to the highest torque settings so apparently it caused no known damage.

However, about 10 years ago I happend to walk into Home Depot and Husky had a direct exchange program. One of their Torque Wrenches in excange for a Craftsman one.

I spoke with one of the Sales Persons concerning the exchange and sure enough it was true. I dropped what I was doing and headed straight home and dug out the Craftsmans Torque Wrench and drove back and got the Husky one (US made also).
I have had zero function problems with the Husky.