Thanks Peter. I finally got those o-rings from the dealer.. put them on and no more lifter tapping!! There were old o-rings on there, they looked ok and when I saw them I said "this aint gonna work" but sure enough.. it sounds great!

Recently my 300SDL starts right up in the cold (about 40 deg) but idles a little rough.. so i just revv it alot and then it clears up but it is slower than heck for about 5 minutes. Also one time after starting it cold and it was idling a little ruff, i had my foot to the floor but the RPMs would not increase.. it took about 5 seconds to build up enough energy to revv. But overall the car runs great and has lots of power.. any ideas? I changed the main fuel filter about 20K miles ago..

Thanks

I changed the oil in my 1987 300TD yesterday to Castrol Syntec 10W-40. I notice a reduction in noise.

I took a look at the two O-rings (I do not have new ones on hand). They are still soft but could easily use some new ones. But they appear to me to be two different size.

Did you put on two of the same size?

Bo:

I dug up two from a cheap o-ring assortment package we had lying around, same size. Works fine, but I will get the correct ones for the next oil change.

Rough idle cold, lack of revs is probably tired glowplugs -- identical to my volvo TD. I used Champions the last two times (hint!) because they were on the shelf at the parts store. I will be ordering Bosch ones this time. I get instant "almost" start, then have to crank for 20 or 30 sec to get the damned thing to stay lit, and it won't rev at first. Finally takes off and blows out a huge cloud of partailly burned fuel.

I ssupect the Champion glowplugs are crap -- I had the glowplug relay stick on, that fried the last batch, but I'm getting the same thing again two years later (replaced the first set of Bosch plugs when I did the IP). The relay ran the battery flat if the headlights were on -- very ammusing!

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter:

I tried to use the O-rings from an assortment I bought from Auto Zone but none of them are of the correct size so I put the old ones back. Have to get some from the dealer.

BTW, about the noise affected about these two O-rings: Do they only affect cold noise (startup) or ongoing?

My car starts fine for now. I wait an extra 10 - 15 seconds after the glow light goes out and there is hardly any smoke in the morning (the temps are around 30 here in Michigan in the mornings now). But some time I would like to out in new glow plugs and they are inexpensive (I saw Bosch for about $8 a piece). Replacing them seem to be a task because of the intake manifold. So I am planing a job for next spring-summer and I am thinking about:

1. Clean the cross over pipe and intake manifold and replace the gaskets.
2. Replace all glow plugs.
3. Maybe replace the shut off valve as MB has an improved one, I heard. The one on mine is metal so it must be the original one.

BTW, how to open the glow plug relay box? Do the attaching screws have to come off? I would like to measure the resistances of the glow plugs because I do not know how long they have been there.

Thanks.

Bo:

Sounds good to me! New o-rings will cure both startup and running tappet noise unless the tappets are bad. I've not looked at the glowplugs on mine, have not idea how hard they are to get out. I don't think it is necesary to remove the intake for the injectors, but glowplugs?

I'm going to take the crossover pipe on mine off tomorrow -- want to make sure it is clean before driving to Florida. Hans didn't take if off when he did the injectors.

I got the metal shutoff -- the plastic on is a different part number, lists as "power steering servo". What for, I have no idea. It seems to work, and is cheaper, so what the hey. I'd not replace it for fun. Wait til it quits, might be another 100,000 miles!

Glow plug wires should have a plug at the box, you only need take the cover off the plug. I'm not sure where it is, never looked!

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter:

<<
Sounds good to me! New o-rings will cure both startup and running tappet noise unless the tappets are bad. I've not looked at the glowplugs on mine, have not idea how hard they are to get out. I don't think it is necessary to remove the intake for the injectors, but glowplugs?
>>
Marshall Booth, "der Dieseling Doktor", MBCA's technical director, said in an old message that on the 60x engine, an integral 12 mm swivel socket and a long extension must be used if the intake manifold is nor to be removed. The glow plugs are under the manifolds and there is no a whole lot of space and it is hard to reach.

<<
I'm going to take the crossover pipe on mine off tomorrow -- want to make sure it is clean before driving to Florida. Hans didn't take if off when he did the injectors.
>>
Please let us know what good stuffs you find inside. Did you gt the gasket and O-ring on both ends? Part number?

<<
I got the metal shutoff -- the plastic on is a different part number, lists as "power steering servo". What for, I have no idea. It seems to work, and is cheaper, so what the hey. I'd not replace it for fun. Wait til it quits, might be another 100,000 miles!
>>
I heard from another list that the plastic one is of improved design.

<<
Glow plug wires should have a plug at the box, you only need take the cover off the plug. I'm not sure where it is, never looked!
>>
The box is on the driver side, near the wheel well. I cannot see how to take the cover off as it is mounted horizontally so the cover is sideways not just on top as other covers.

Bo

Bo:

Sorry, got the seals Tuesday & forgot to post #s

Seal: 602 096 00 80

O-ring: 013 997 29 48

Cost me around $15.

I suspect the head has been off recently as I have oil in the coolant tank, but it doesn't seem to be collecting -- I'm presuming a head gasket/head replacement from busted radiator hose nipple (new rad!) and concommittant blown head gasket or cracked head. I may have new seals on intake already, and it will have been cleaned, I'm sure, if it was off. Easy way to tell if the head is new or re-condidtioned. It looks very clean through the oil filler.

I will find out! New coolant, too, but green -- will have to be changed this spring.

Thanks for the info on the glowplugs! There should be a cover on the plug for the wires that can be unclipped, exposing the wires for testing on the relay, shouldn't have to remove the relay cover (or else mine is missing!)

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter:

Thanks for the part numbers.

<<
Thanks for the info on the glowplugs! There should be a cover on the plug for the wires that can be unclipped, exposing the wires for testing on the relay, shouldn't have to remove the relay cover (or else mine is missing!)
>>
As far as I can tell, the wire on the glow plug is also fastened by a nut. Since reaching the plugs are very hard (if possible, no hand can get in there), I think the recommended method is to measure the resistances through the glow plug relay box.

Bo

Bo:

The cover on my glowplug relay just slips off forward and up. The plug for the wires is right there -- you can just unplug it and check resistance from there.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Thanks, Peter. Will try that.

Bo

First of all, I think these '86-'87 vintage 603 engines are just plain cold-natured. There was a design modification on the later 603 diesels (I'm aware of the W124 ones anyway, like '88 and '89 years) that kept the glow plugs on after the engine starts (up to 17.5 seconds in 1988, and up to 60 seconds in 1989).

See Job 15-0705 in the 602_603 engine section of the CDROM.

In starting my '87 300D, the engine immediately catches and runs smoothly. Then, at just about the time the glow plugs would be fairly well cooling down, the idle gets rough and the light gray unburned diesel smoke starts becoming visible. I'm pretty sure with a little extra glow plug time, there would be little smoke and roughness in the idle.

So, I just live with it. It runs great when warmed up just a minute - and I think the smoke is the reason the previous owner sold it so cheaply. I think the dealer had him primed for a engine overhaul.

I don't fully understand why the engines in the W123 cars don't do this. Could it be that the aluminum head in the 603 engine can't heat up as quickly? I dunno.

Secondly, I too have the oil filter shaft o-rings on order. I could find the 617 engine part(s) but not the 603 part(s), so I just ordered twice the necessary o-rings for the 617 and am hoping that these fit the 603. It seems like a similar part.

Ken300D

Funny, I don't notice any rough idle or smoke, but then I usually drive right off after the oil pressure comes up -- the drive where I park the 300D is right on the road. I start, put it in gear, back out, and drive off. I get a miss now and then, but not for long.

Don't notice anything from my brother's 300SDL, either, except for more noise cold than the 300D. The Volvo and 220D make a LOT of white smoke for a bit, and the 220D blows black smoke and rattles horribly for the first mile -- low compression and excessive oil in the cylinders from worn valve guides and/or bad vaccuum pump.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Thanks Peter. I got those o rings from the dealer and my 91 300D is a lot more quiet at start up. like others it misses for a minute or so.

Ken, there are the same size for all models. although one of them looks like it is bigger on the shaft.

My 300SD is more quiet than the 300D when it first start up. I think it is the design of the air flow restriction on later design. 300SDs don't have any. more air less unburn fuel...right?!

__________________
BJ

09 GL320 Bluetec 65K+
07 E320 Bluetec 43k+
05 Nissan Frontier NISMO 4X4 72K+


07 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 5k+ gone
87 300SDL 158k+ gone
91 300D 113k+ gone
83 300SD 220K+ gone
89 300E sold
87 190E sold
83 380SEL sold
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