Need to pull starter on '80 300sd turbo. Looks awfully tight in there. use to working on older american autos.

I might have to remove my starter also so I will be interested in the answers.

P E H

May have to change mine as well......1977 300D.

Hmmm. I need to change my starter on the '82 300D also - the replacement is on-hand. It wants to spin a few times when cold before engaging.

This is a little suspicious in conspiracy terms. If we were talking about windshields I would KNOW something is going on..........

Ever hear those stories about the glass people going around town breaking windows & windshields when business is a little slow?



Ken300D

I changed my starter a few months ago. First, disconnect the negative battery cable. Raise the front of the car and use jack stands to support the front end - block the rear wheels so the car cannot move (do not use just the emergency brake). Disconnect the wires from the solenoid (peel back the protective rubber boot to gain access to the fasteners). Remove the starter brace bolts from both the starter and the engine block. I was able to move the steering to a position to allow the starter to be snaked through - you may need to remove the through-bolt and the lower steering track rod to get the clearance needed to remove the starter. The auto trans filler tube may need to be moved some to gain access to the starter mounting bolts (I did not not need to), so you may need to remove mounting bolt for the filler tube (no need to remove the filler tube). The starter mount bolts at the bellhousing are reached from underneath the car and are the Allen head type (I believe an 8mm head - I'll check tomorrow) and face toward the back of the car. I have the type of Allen head wrench that fit into sockets and with long extensions and a wobble end (or universal joint adaptor) I was able to reach the top mounting bolt easily over the side/top of the transmission. The L-shape Allen head wrenches will work, but be prepared to find the right position to apply them to the mounting bolt (perhaps the top bolt may easier to access from the engine compartment - at least initially). Also, some force will be needed to loosen the mounting bolts. Be careful when removing the starter because it is very heavy - keep a good grip on it. Installation is the reverse.
Good Luck!!
Tom

__________________
America: Land of the Free!

1977 300D: 300,000+ miles

American Honda: Factory Trained Technician & Honor Grad.
Formerly:
Shop Foreman;
Technical Advisor to Am. Honda;
Supervisor of Maintenance largest tree care co. in US for offices in Tex.

Tom,
Several questions:
1) How long did the whole starter swap take you?
2) How difficult was it to remove the lower steering track rod?
3) How long an extension will I need for the rachet wrench?
4) Did you use a torque wrench to secure all the bolts upon reinstallation?

Thanks a lot for helping me out with those. I'm going to be using your procedure description as a guide Sunday when I change mine. I've been dreading it for a while.

Alex

Alex:

I did not time myself, but 2 hours or less seems about right.

Looking back I had to re-pull the rebuilt starter because the bellhousing mount bolts did not thread in easily. I took the starter back out and tapped the threads - tapping threads is something I usually do with rebuilt components, but a visual inspection revealed clean looking threads so I did not run a tap through them. If you do not own a tap, then you can try some WD-40, LPS-1, etc. on the threads and a soft brush (like that used for cleaning the bore of a pistol/rifle, not a bronze/brass brush) to clean out the threads. Then run the mounting bolts in with some lube to see how easily they thread - the easier the better.

The R&R procedure outlined in my post came, in part, from the Haynes M-B diesel manual plus additions that I used. As I wrote, I did not need to remove the track rod (that is connected by 3 bolts to the body, I would not remove it at the lower control arm because that is part of the alignment from my experience when I replaced/rebuilt the entire front end about 3 years ago). I was able to move the steering into a position (with the steering wheel initially, then with the steering lock off, then pushed on the tire to position the steering components) where I could snake the starter through. Same with the auto trans filler tube - I did not need to loosen it to access the mounting bolts. Keep a good grip on the starter, it's heavy and on jack stands laying on your back you do not have the strength/leverage that you would if standing if the car was on a lift.

As I recall, I had 2 - 4 inch and one 8 inch 3/8" extension to use an Allen wrench that is in a socket to reach the top bellhousing mounting bolt from along side/top of the transmission (one of the 4" extensions was a wobble extension, a U-joint attachment can be used in place of).

I did not find any torque specs for the starter mounting bolts, solenoid fasteners (not overtight to avoid displacing positioning of interior elec. components), etc. in the Haynes or official M-B manuals (another example: no torque value for the intake/exhaust manifolds either - which seems a bit strange, but I have found errors in both the Haynes and all the M-B manuals - even the techs at the M-B dealership in San Antone admit to the errors that are corrected in the M-B tech bulletins but not the manuals - jerks). The mounting bolts need to be tight because the starter is heavy and a fair torque load occurs when trying to start the engine, especially the first start on cold days. Also, getting a torque wrench onto these bolts would be pretty hard - you'll see when you do the R&R.

I'll check on the Allen head size in a while and post a reply.

Hope this helps!
Tom

__________________
America: Land of the Free!

1977 300D: 300,000+ miles

American Honda: Factory Trained Technician & Honor Grad.
Formerly:
Shop Foreman;
Technical Advisor to Am. Honda;
Supervisor of Maintenance largest tree care co. in US for offices in Tex.

I just checked the bellhousing mounting bolts and they are a 10mm Allen head.

If you do not own one already, I strongly suggest buying the Haynes M-B manual followed by the official M-B manuals (I prefer the printed copies over the CD, but the CD's are easier to find since the print versions are OOP ). You can find the manuals on eBay. After that, your library may have the Mitchell service manuals that have some very useful hard-to-find info as well as other service manuals that may be useful.

Tom

__________________
America: Land of the Free!

1977 300D: 300,000+ miles

American Honda: Factory Trained Technician & Honor Grad.
Formerly:
Shop Foreman;
Technical Advisor to Am. Honda;
Supervisor of Maintenance largest tree care co. in US for offices in Tex.

Tom,

Thanks for all the input. Tried to remove before reading your post, and (hate to admit it) couldn't not turn those bolts to save my life.

May take it to the man.

Brad

It is a *****.I just did it on my 80 td.I had to drop one of the tierods I cut a peice off of the proper size allen wrench than used a box end to turn it.everything now works fine.

I have done this more than once on the 220D, and 240D's I have owned. The Allen wrench on the top fastener is usually the worst. I raise the hood all the way up, so it is vertical and out of the way. Then I put a long socket on the end of the Allen wrench (I think it is 10 mm on all of them) and add a long extension. Approaching the car from the passenger side, and holding the Allen wrench in position with my left hand, I give a good heave. You get very little travel of the bolt per "stroke," something like a flat, but it quickly becomes a finger turning job. You need a little mechanical advantage, but once you get going it is not a complicated or difficult job.

I can usually get the starter out and back in just by removing the steering shock absorber and nothing else, with the steering in the straight ahead orientation.

Be sure to disconnect the battery terminals, as it is tight in there and you can weld the wrench to the block, or damage other stuff in the vicintiy of the starter.

Good luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

My starter works fine when the weather or the engin is warm, but when below about 25F or lower, the starter engages then jumps out of gear from the ring gear and just spins. When I turn the key starter switch to the run position, the starter will again engage with the ring gear as it slows down. Then nothing happens because the key switch is not in the start position.

This will happen over and over until the engine starts or I give up.

Does anyone else have this problem and what is the fix?

P E H

Since this cold snap came through last week, mine is doing a similar thing. It either spins once or partially engages during the first start. After that and in subsequent starts it works fine.

I'm thinking the fix might be to remove and clean the bendix gear shaft and relube????? Or with all the trouble, changing the starter.

__________________
1976 240D
1987 560SL
2007 E320 Bluetec
1998 C280 (now son’s car)
1982 240D Manual - Sold

It was just thinking: there is a pick and a hold coil in the solonoid. It appears that the pick coil is strong enough to engage the starter gear into the ring gear but the hold coil isn't strong enough to keep the gears engaged. But, I can't explain why it only does this when it is cold and why it jumps into engagement when the key switch is released.

P E H

I had to replace the solenoid assembly, which was cheap and pretty easy. You can find them online for less than $30 shipped (got mine at AutoPartsGIANT.com since Fastlane doesn't stock them). I also replaced the positive strap, which was pretty shot. Have fun!