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  #31  
Old 11-03-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercFan View Post

What's the likelyhood that that aluminum TC cover will crack when I tighten that TIME-SERT piece into it - it looks like it expands to lock it in place... That's a pretty big bolt (18mm?!) that I'll need - hopefully they have the right size piece for this.

In my (engineering) experience (a lot) these sorts of jobs where you have two options, do it right, or try to take a shortcut, always end up biting you in the ass if you take the shortcut.

LOAN with 500 buck deposit one of the covers here from one of the other members, inspect it, clean it up, do any remedial work, make it factory spec.

Do the surgery / swap, rebuild your engine properly.

Now do the easy repair of your old cover, properly, in a machine shop, and send it back to the loaner and get your deposit back.

Renew the timing chain etc while you're in there, all new factory gaskets and seals.

Chances are, you'll notice something else and "catch" it before it bites you on the ass.

It's experience that teaches you to do these jobs right first time, I hate spending money more than you, I hate working on cars more than you, I hate owning non working cars more than you, but short cuts bite you in the ass with such regularity that you eventually learn the lesson.

It's cheaper to do the job right the first time.

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  #32  
Old 11-03-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W124 E300D View Post
Do the surgery / swap, rebuild your engine properly.
Man oh man... I've done some wrenching on this car but as you can tell I'm having hard time tightening bolts on this engine let alone performing an engine rebuilt as a result of my carelessness... so I'm having serious doubts about this - just not sure I'm up to the task...

What are some of the more difficult steps involved in such major job?! What are the things to watch out for (other than over-torquing bolts )?

I'm just hating life right now...
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2010, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercFan View Post
Man oh man... I've done some wrenching on this car but as you can tell I'm having hard time tightening bolts on this engine let alone performing an engine rebuilt as a result of my carelessness... so I'm having serious doubts about this - just not sure I'm up to the task...

Find a retired local mechanic / fitter who will help.

Most tradesmen will willingly help / teach people who don't know how, but who want to learn.

No tradesmen are interested in helping people who just want a cheaper alternative to the local garage, and who don't want to learn.

FWIW over tightening fasteners is by far the most common mistake the amateur makes. The seond commonest mistake is forcing something that doesn't want to move, often because there is still a hidden fastener or something that needs to be removed.

After that you get into cleanliness, sadly even mechanics are rarely good enough at this, every single fastener you remove should be put in a vice (by the head ONLY) and have the threads cleaned up with a wire brush etc, all mating surfaces thoroughly cleaned, all parts cleaned and washed.

If you're a smoker, stop and think and smoke in between minor operations, if you're not a smoker, still stop and think, and look at the job, even experienced fitters notice things this way.

Above all, don't rush it, treat everything like it is made of glass and very valuable, you won't go far wrong.

Face facts, your vehicle is off the road, it's gonna stay that way until fixed, make alternative arrangements so you aren't under the hammer to git r done.

Put fasteners back where they belong, eg timing cover fasteners, clean them, then put them loosely in the right places in the block, that way you don't lose them, put the wrong ones in and cause more damage, or forget any parts when assembling.

it's NOT rocket science.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercFan View Post
Man oh man... I've done some wrenching on this car but as you can tell I'm having hard time tightening bolts on this engine let alone performing an engine rebuilt as a result of my carelessness... so I'm having serious doubts about this - just not sure I'm up to the task...

What are some of the more difficult steps involved in such major job?! What are the things to watch out for (other than over-torquing bolts )?

I'm just hating life right now...
Merc,
Are you doing this work in a garage or outside? You are in Colorado right?

I suggest postponing this until the spring. Right now you are not in a good mental state to do this (I think). Chillax and make it a spring project.
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  #35  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by benhogan View Post
Merc,
Are you doing this work in a garage or outside? You are in Colorado right?

I suggest postponing this until the spring. Right now you are not in a good mental state to do this (I think). Chillax and make it a spring project.
I'm in the garage... but you're right about the mental state - may take some time to calm down from this screw up and face the task ahead of me...
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  #36  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W124 E300D View Post
Find a retired local mechanic / fitter who will help.

Most tradesmen will willingly help / teach people who don't know how, but who want to learn.

No tradesmen are interested in helping people who just want a cheaper alternative to the local garage, and who don't want to learn.

FWIW over tightening fasteners is by far the most common mistake the amateur makes. The seond commonest mistake is forcing something that doesn't want to move, often because there is still a hidden fastener or something that needs to be removed.

After that you get into cleanliness, sadly even mechanics are rarely good enough at this, every single fastener you remove should be put in a vice (by the head ONLY) and have the threads cleaned up with a wire brush etc, all mating surfaces thoroughly cleaned, all parts cleaned and washed.

If you're a smoker, stop and think and smoke in between minor operations, if you're not a smoker, still stop and think, and look at the job, even experienced fitters notice things this way.

Above all, don't rush it, treat everything like it is made of glass and very valuable, you won't go far wrong.

Face facts, your vehicle is off the road, it's gonna stay that way until fixed, make alternative arrangements so you aren't under the hammer to git r done.

Put fasteners back where they belong, eg timing cover fasteners, clean them, then put them loosely in the right places in the block, that way you don't lose them, put the wrong ones in and cause more damage, or forget any parts when assembling.

it's NOT rocket science.
Thanks - good tips... and yeah, I'm thinking of taking up heavy smoking right about now... and drinking to boot.
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1987 Mercedes 300SDL; SOLD
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  #37  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MercFan View Post
I'm in the garage... but you're right about the mental state - may take some time to calm down from this screw up and face the task ahead of me...

Look, this happens to everyone especially in this forum. If you drive old cars, it is unreasonable to expect it not to be 'disabled' at some point. That is why most people here have at least 2 cars.

Chillax and enjoy that Colorado fall weather.
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  #38  
Old 11-03-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhogan View Post
Look, this happens to everyone especially in this forum. If you drive old cars, it is unreasonable to expect it not to be 'disabled' at some point. That is why most people here have at least 2 cars.

Chillax and enjoy that Colorado fall weather.
Thx - I guess that FSM cd got here just in time, eh?!....

And the weather has been really, really nice this fall.
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  #39  
Old 11-03-2010, 01:23 PM
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considering your apprehension....

I suggest the JB weld or similar epoxy. Search around for something stronger, perhaps.

If you can still thread the bolt in there and it holds torque (just not 100nm) it may be a worthwhile option until you are ready to put the car down and tear into it.

I still believe in doing a timesert in the engine bay. Use your creativity....



There are guides that would help you establish the right angle and keep the bit straight. Plus, the existing bore will do most of the guidance, regardless.

After that, tapping aluminum is pretty easy.
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  #40  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
I suggest the JB weld or similar epoxy.
I'll try it first, knowing that it's not the correct fix but rather a temp band-aid until I can get myself properly prepared for the large task at hand.

THx for all the suggestions -
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  #41  
Old 11-03-2010, 08:00 PM
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Update...

Ok - this IS embarassing...

I dragged myself down to the garage this afternoon to do the dirty deed of JB Welding the tensioner bolt into the TC cover on the engine... was not looking forward to it.

Got the torque wrench (my new best fiend... ) set to 73ft/lbs per FSM just in case. I carefully screwed it into place finger tight and started carefully torquing it down... bit by bit... and wouldn't you know it - it clicked! It took full torque tonight - what gives!?!??!?!?!?!?

I have no idea why this bolt felt like it was twisting in the threads last time - I was stunned. I pulled the bolt back off, wiped off all of the JB Weld goop and re-torqued to 73ft/lb again! I can't believe it but it took full torque today - unless my torque wrench is lying... not ready to celebrate just yet.

It's not yet ready for the final test but at least I've got the tensioner, the dampener, and the tension spring on it with good results (so far).

Sorry... guess I panicked and nearly lost it - sorry I sent you all on a 'wild goose chase' in the process...

Not sure I'm completely out of the woods just yet, but I do feel like I just got very lucky (somehow?!).
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  #42  
Old 11-03-2010, 08:28 PM
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Just open the bonnet every day and inspect it to make sure it isn't coming undone.

If not, it should last 50,000 miles fine.

Good luck.
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  #43  
Old 11-03-2010, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by W124 E300D View Post
Just open the bonnet every day and inspect it to make sure it isn't coming undone. Good luck.
Thanks. I'll watch it like a hawk.
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  #44  
Old 11-03-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
I still believe in doing a timesert in the engine bay. Use your creativity....


the issue is getting the hole square.

i am pretty sure someone did this repair on the timing cover of my '87TD because the tensioner sits cocked at an angle. the tensioner itself has been replaced twice by me. because it sits at an angle it has given problems over the years. the last time it failed the screw that holds the roller to the tensioner sheared out of the tensioner part, probably due to the angular force on it. i've wondered what would be involved in re/re the timing cover and replace it, but it looked like quite a task, now this thread confirms it.

i'd say there's no harm in trying the JB weld fix. i doubt it will last, but JB weld is pretty amazing stuff and the amount of work saved is worth the effort of trying.
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  #45  
Old 12-24-2010, 04:37 PM
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The tensioner is s 12mm allen, not a 1/2 inch.

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