Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-19-2010, 09:57 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
If the GP is faulty it can draw the correct current & all the heating is occurring it the part under the bolt fitting. I have seen this.

I cant understand why so many are pre-occupied in using a test meter, you are trying to see if the GP gets a proper glow pattern, you need to see it going red. You also need to make sure the GP hole is clean & doesnt require reaming. No test meter can determine this. Its time to get your fingers dirty!!
perhaps we should add to the service interval a series of glow plug service to the valve adjustment plan.
at 15K, the GP's should be pulled, and the holes reamed. also, the plugs themselves should have power applied and verify the TIP gets hot bright orange at a minimum.

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:00 PM
JHZR2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,265
If it wasnt so annoying to do it, Id say absolutely... It would make the engine easier to turn for the valve adjustment too.

Problem is it is nearly impossible to get the GPs disconnected and removed without pulling the injector spider, which means repriming and difficulty to start, etc., etc.

Or am I blowing it out of proportion?
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:03 PM
John Schroader's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 404
Finally we are on a subject that I actually am competent in. Another reason that the amps might be dropping (besides those mentioned) is the resistive co-efficient to temperature. Many heat elements (most) change resistance as the temperature changes. Some have a positive co-efficient -- resistance rises with temp and some have a negative co-efficient -- resistance drops with temps. This can easily be seen by measuring the resistance of an incandescent (quartz - for exampe) light. Using ohm's law and a cold resistance reading would not give anywhere near the amp draw that an ammeter would indicate. That's because the ammeter only measures the current as it flows (hence the filament is hot). Also ---- clamp type ammeters work well with AC; they barely function at all, and are wildly erratic, on DC. An in line ammeter with a healthy shunt is far more accurate than a clamp type.
__________________
John Schroader
bio burnin' 83 300D, '83 300 SD, '79 240D
"I've never met a man who was good at making excuses who was good at anything else" Ben Franklin
"You cannot permanently help a man by doing for him what he could and should do for himself" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:06 PM
JHZR2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schroader View Post
Finally we are on a subject that I actually am competent in. Another reason that the amps might be dropping (besides those mentioned) is the resistive co-efficient to temperature. Many heat elements (most) change resistance as the temperature changes. Some have a positive co-efficient -- resistance rises with temp and some have a negative co-efficient -- resistance drops with temps. This can easily be seen by measuring the resistance of an incandescent (quartz - for exampe) light. Using ohm's law and a cold resistance reading would not give anywhere near the amp draw that an ammeter would indicate. That's because the ammeter only measures the current as it flows (hence the filament is hot). Also ---- clamp type ammeters work well with AC; they barely function at all, and are wildly erratic, on DC. An in line ammeter with a healthy shunt is far more accurate than a clamp type.
So youre saying that a fluke 336, a professional instrument designed to measure up to 600A DC as one of the basic functions that it is sold for is going to be giving a faulty reading? I highly doubt it.

I dont deny that it could be done more accurately, but even being 10A in 100 off is close enough to get a baseline for what draw truly is, and then to see if a GP is not working in the future...
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:24 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
Extech MA220 D.C. Amp Clamp

less than a "Franklin".
Attached Thumbnails
Best/Easiest way to test glow plugs-screenhunter_02-dec.-18-22.23.jpg  
__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:33 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
I see nothing on that ad that says the meter will measure DC amps...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:54 PM
JHZR2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,265
Mine is this and more than a Franklin:

http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Clamp-Meters/Fluke-336.htm?PID=70327

So Im pretty sure my measurement is OK.
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-19-2010, 11:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,652
And it is made in China .

Charlie
__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-19-2010, 11:11 PM
JHZR2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,265
Like everything else. Cant escape it. DO you know of a DC clamp meter that is US made?
__________________
Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
1993 300SD (291k)
1993 300D 2.5T (338k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (265k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-19-2010, 11:30 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
searching, I found this page, it's interesting... and it states how accurate the fluke or other DC surround style ammeters are... it likes them, but gives tests for ways to use the less accurate style...
http://www.stuttgartperformanceengineering.com/inductiveammater.html
I also found that amprobe brand test instruments are made in germany, not china... does that help? of course, they don't make any DC amp test inductive anyway...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-19-2010, 11:33 PM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
If it wasnt so annoying to do it, Id say absolutely... It would make the engine easier to turn for the valve adjustment too.

Problem is it is nearly impossible to get the GPs disconnected and removed without pulling the injector spider, which means repriming and difficulty to start, etc., etc.

Or am I blowing it out of proportion?
With the mod I made to the glow plug harness and using the proper tools, I can remove and replacing all 5 glow plugs in less than 15 minutes without removing the injector hard lines. I made the mod to make it easy to do a compression test every 10K miles.
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-20-2010, 04:04 AM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
perhaps we should add to the service interval a series of glow plug service to the valve adjustment plan.
at 15K, the GP's should be pulled, and the holes reamed. also, the plugs themselves should have power applied and verify the TIP gets hot bright orange at a minimum.
You know vstech, if that was done, ~80% of the no start threads would vanish.
As I have said before, testing with a meter will tell you that you have a problem, it will not tell you that the GP's are good as you can have perfect meter readings yet not a proper glow on the GP !! If one tests bad on the meter, then any one with any intelligence would know to test them all on a bench.
Relying on meter readings is just a case of artificial intelligence ( the meter) being no match for natural stupidity (they guy who rely's on the reading)!!
Many of us are rightfully critical of the limitations of the electronics that now 'controls' many cars, yet we jump to use an electronic device to test GP's.
If your brushes are bad in your alt, you visually inspect them, same goes for GP's !!
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:30 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ooltewah, TN
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
With the mod I made to the glow plug harness and using the proper tools, I can remove and replacing all 5 glow plugs in less than 15 minutes without removing the injector hard lines. I made the mod to make it easy to do a compression test every 10K miles.
Link please
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:39 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
to find a thread one of us has started, click on the username and go to the public profile, then click on show threads started by user then look through them for what you are searching for...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=287824
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:57 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkenvol View Post
Link please
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG1MB1ygVqXM&v=G1MB1ygVqXM&gl=US

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page