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#1
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Vac Pump check valve question per shut off problem. Need quick advice!!
I just removed my check valve to see if it needed cleaned before going deeper and rebuilding my pump. I was getting 7.5 in\hq from it, and thought it might be dirty or clogged. What I found was a little brown plastic piece about the size of a .22 bullet (not shell, bullet) and the spring inside the housing looked out of position. When I looked further, I'm seeing a small brown ring, about the size of a 3/8" washer, that's hung up in the spring. I believe it's a section of the 'bullet' part that's broken off. The spring will not come out, and neither will the ring part. The bullet, which is circular at it's approx. 1/4" base, looks a lot like a phillips screwdriver bit. I took pictures to post, but now my damn camera isn't cooperating for me to upload the photos! Anyway, I now have a vacuum check valve that has the bullet\phillips deal out of the housing, and I'm wondering A) Can I put what's left of the valve back on and use it??, and B), does anyone have a spare one they'd like to lend me till I can get one? I'm in financial straits presently, and I'm going to have to make this car run one way or another. With my Suburban on the injured list, this one is the back up right now. Any other jerry-rigging ideas will be welcomed, also. I almost wish I would have left it alone and kept on popping the hood to shut it off. Can't seem to win for losing here lately. Thanks for any advice, suggestions or prayers. I'm going back out there and putting it back in right now, regardless. I was supposed to drive 30 miles to my brothers this afternoon.
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"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do." Goethe *********************************** 1951 Chevy 3100 2003 Indian Chief Roadmaster 1983 GMC 1 ton Dually 1982 Chevy 1 ton Dually, service body (sold) '90 GMC Suburban 6.2 "SS Veg-Burban" (single tank WVO\diesel conversion) SOLD '81 300D ~ Mama's car...my job (now my car)(but still my job) SOLD '83 300sd ~ rescue car SOLD 2005 Ford Taurus (Mama's new car)(NOT my job!) |
#2
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Sounds like you need a new check valve.
A cheap solution would be the junk yard until you could get a new one.
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----Adam 1985 300SD 322,000 |
#3
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Quote:
Need new or used one; unless you can invent something to fix it. If you can invent something please Post it with pics as I notice the price of the Check Valves has gone up.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#4
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Since it may impact the brakes be very careful until you get a good one.
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#5
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Ok, I left the phillips driver-bit-looking-part out, since it was loose, and after fiddling with the spring (straightening out and making sure it isn't going to dislodge) and what was left of the brown plastic base ring, which is there to stay, also, I put it back in. I am not getting a little better than 10 hg, and after changing out the yellow 1-2 valve at the rear door lines, I'm getting 10 up to there, also. AND... the engine shuts down when I turn off the key. I replaced the shut off valve in the ip a few days ago, (the old one was bad, or very weak, anyway), and found at that time I was getting low vac from the pump. I'll have to order a new check valve, but I just don't have the $55 at this time, and as far as a junk yard here in hillbilly land, I don't think it's gonna happen. People here think Benz are Rolls Royce's, (I've seriously been heard that comment more than a few times) so it's thought anyone having one should be kin to King Midas. Anyway, it's working, and until somebody replies that this is a bad thing to do with proof, I'm running it. It's the first time it's died when I turned the key off a month. This is a good thing. Hopefully I'm not destroying it by doing so. Thanks for the quick replies, folks. Anybody else??
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"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do." Goethe *********************************** 1951 Chevy 3100 2003 Indian Chief Roadmaster 1983 GMC 1 ton Dually 1982 Chevy 1 ton Dually, service body (sold) '90 GMC Suburban 6.2 "SS Veg-Burban" (single tank WVO\diesel conversion) SOLD '81 300D ~ Mama's car...my job (now my car)(but still my job) SOLD '83 300sd ~ rescue car SOLD 2005 Ford Taurus (Mama's new car)(NOT my job!) |
#6
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If it's the original pump, it may be a good idea to install the lever repair-kit, or even a new pump. Best-case - you lose you brake power-assist. Worst-case - your pump lever-bearings disintegrate and drop balls & shrapnel in your timing chain!
I got lucky on my '84 TD when 12 ball bearings managed to make it past the timing-chain, to be caught in the oil-pump screen without catastrophic damage. But others haven't been so fortunate. Happy Motoring, Mark
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DrDKW |
#7
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When money is short, I sometimes go to the Home Depot or Lowe's to see if they carry parts that kinda look like what I need and generally get good results... I've never fiddled with the vacuum's check valve, but it worked with a couple of bolts, an o-ring and my Caddy's differential. I study what the little parts do, or might do, and get something that would work instead.
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[/SIGPIC]~cirrusman 1983 Mercedes Benz 300SD - Wife calls him "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" [SIGPIC] 1983 Toyota Tercel (Tommy, The little Toyota that could) 1965 Ford F100 (Grandma Ford) 2005 Toyota Sienna (Elsa, Wife's ride) Gone: 1988 Toyota Pickup 2004 Subaru Outback 1987 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham 1986 Volvo 740 GL Station Wagon - Piece of junk. 1981 Volvo 242 DL 2 Door - Hated to see it go. R.I.P. 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT |
#8
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It may be possible to improvise something to use as a check-valve. In my case the pump's lever-bearing failed. The drive cam them hammered against the lever cutting a groove in the lever, and breaking the aluminum piston.
Had I driven the car much longer, fragments of the lever would probably have broken off and followed the ball bearings into my timing-chain. Because a new pump piston isn't availible separately, I wound up buying a new pump. I was in Virginia Beach when the pump failed. A friend of a friend there was able to get me one for $300. I also have an indie Benz parts place here in Alexandria that has them for about $320 (list is around $450!) Meanwhile I gave the old pump to a friend that owns three W123 diesels. He's trying to see if the bearing races can be removed and a new generic bering found to replace it. Just in case one of us might want to refurbish one of these pumps before it fails, since a new lever kit is about $260. Happy Motoring, Mark
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DrDKW |
#9
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Thanks for the replies, fellas. Yeah, I've suddenly become aware of these horror stories of vac pumps disintegrating and ruining engines or large parts of them. I was under the impression that a rebuild would be mainly a diaphragm and check valve, which may still be the case here. But I'd say if it means a total mechanical rebuild, I'd be just as well off buying a new one, then if the original can be rebuilt, (or if I could find a rebuilt original), I'd have that in there or have one to spare.
What are the negatives to running an open check valve, anyway?? I guess "open" would be an incorrect description, since there's still a spring and small plastic ring still in there. Also, the "metering valve" at ahead of the brake booster in the main vac line under the hood--- how do I check it? what should it read in hg's? Thanks everybody. I'm realize I may be doing a "not good thing" by using this with a gutless check valve, but I did drive a 90 mile round trip yesterday afternoon with no problems that I was aware of. And it shuts off, all be it not exactly as quick as I'd prefer occasionally.
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"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do." Goethe *********************************** 1951 Chevy 3100 2003 Indian Chief Roadmaster 1983 GMC 1 ton Dually 1982 Chevy 1 ton Dually, service body (sold) '90 GMC Suburban 6.2 "SS Veg-Burban" (single tank WVO\diesel conversion) SOLD '81 300D ~ Mama's car...my job (now my car)(but still my job) SOLD '83 300sd ~ rescue car SOLD 2005 Ford Taurus (Mama's new car)(NOT my job!) |
#10
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The main thing is do the Power Brakes work?
Maybe you could buy a used check Valve from one if the Members who goes to the Junk Yard a lot.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#11
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For the experimenters:
High Flow Brass Check Valve for Veneer Vacuum Press This item is for vacuum press builders looking for a high-flow, heavy duty brass-body check valve at a reasonable price. These units use a spring loaded Buna-N diaphram seal. Size: 1/4" NPT Threads Flow Direction: Female to Male http://cgi.ebay.com/High-Flow-Brass-Check-Valve-Veneer-Vacuum-Press-/220647561771?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335f9e9a2b Summit Racing also has what looks like a Brake Booster Check Valve (saw it on eBay also)
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#12
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Having witnessed vacuum-pump failure in my '84 TD, and a friend's 85 190D, I'd say one might have a good chance of coming through the experience without severe engine damage if only the ball-bearings fall ito the timing-chain. The balls are small and smooth enough that they can make it through or around the chain without harm.
The pump in my car failed near the end of a 200 mile trip to my parent's home in Virginia Beach. My brakes were OK when I slowed for the Hampton Tunnel (about 20 miles from the house) but had no vacuum assist when I took the Laskin Road - Virginia Beach off-ramp (about 5 miles away). Next morning when I removed the old pump, there was a serious groove worn in the pump-lever, but it was otherwise intact. If the pump had failed in the middle of my trip, and I had driven 70 - 100 miles without discovering the loss of vacuum. the outcome would probably have been much worse. One poster on a related thread reported that his catastrophic engine damage occured after his pump-lever came apart, dumping those pieces into his timing-chain. So, while having a dozen ball bearings dropped into your moving timing-chain is not a wonderful event, if it happens, and your engine is still running OK when you can get it shut down, you've probably dodged the fatal bullet. I plan to install a new lever-bearing kit in the pump of my '82 240D BEFORE I experience any 'suprises'! Happy Motoring, Mark
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DrDKW |
#13
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The brakes seem to be fine, or as far as I can tell, anyway. As I said, I took it from where I live, and drove it about 30 miles north to my brothers, then went into Festus with him, then stopped again at McD's, then back to his house, and then home via a curvy, hilly road, then highway the rest of the way. (We're in the foot hills of the Ozarks, so bad brakes won't do...ever). I took it to the store last night, and the temp is down to the high 20's, so it was cold when starting out. I mean, they don't feel any different. Thanks for the reference on the interim check valve, Diesel911. So, then, this check valve's purpose, from what I can tell, is just to keep from losing vac pressure when the engine is not running, right?? If the pump is ok and the car is running, the pump will do it's job, is that correct?
And something else I'm not sure of. I've read posts on here that say I should be getting 10 hg vacuum out of the pump, but I saw on one of dieselgiants pictorial DIY's that it should read something like 20-22 in\hg. What is the right number on an 81 300D? The Haynes manual, once again, fails miserably on this subject. I think they gave the vacuum system, total, about one paragraph. They should have had a chapter on it!
__________________
"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do." Goethe *********************************** 1951 Chevy 3100 2003 Indian Chief Roadmaster 1983 GMC 1 ton Dually 1982 Chevy 1 ton Dually, service body (sold) '90 GMC Suburban 6.2 "SS Veg-Burban" (single tank WVO\diesel conversion) SOLD '81 300D ~ Mama's car...my job (now my car)(but still my job) SOLD '83 300sd ~ rescue car SOLD 2005 Ford Taurus (Mama's new car)(NOT my job!) |
#14
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Quote:
Since I cleaned it several years ago everthing has been fine.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#15
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Well, mine is definitely clean! Clean as in nearly empty. I'll have to get a new one, but not before I sell something, find some money on the sidewalk (I did find $2 on the parking lot the other day at the doctors office. or wait till January 1st.)(Or my comp lawyer kicks some butt and gets my case lined out) But otherwise, so far, so good.
__________________
"Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do." Goethe *********************************** 1951 Chevy 3100 2003 Indian Chief Roadmaster 1983 GMC 1 ton Dually 1982 Chevy 1 ton Dually, service body (sold) '90 GMC Suburban 6.2 "SS Veg-Burban" (single tank WVO\diesel conversion) SOLD '81 300D ~ Mama's car...my job (now my car)(but still my job) SOLD '83 300sd ~ rescue car SOLD 2005 Ford Taurus (Mama's new car)(NOT my job!) |
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