Getting ready to install the replacement OM616... I've heard conflicting advice on whether to replace the pressure plate of the clutch while the engine and transmission are split. Obviously if money is no object you replace everything on your engine and drivetrain, but I'm looking to strike a balance between frugal and sensible. Do you advise replacing the clutch pressure plate every time that you replace the disk? How about the throw-out bearing? Pilot bearings are cheap, so that's a no-brainer. Clutch disk is a wear item, so no-brainer there, too.

Cheers,

Kurt

__________________
- '79 240D - engine swap complete! Engine broken in! 28-31 mpg! Lovin' the ride!
- '86 190D (W201-126) - 2.5 NA engine, 5 speed, cloth interior, manual climate controls, 33-34 mpg (sold to forum member).

duh... the springs are abused stop being cheap

__________________
1996 s10 zr2 with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1996 c2500 suburban with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1981 300sd with a turbo 617
Monte carlo figure 8 car

Clutch disk and pressure plates are inspected when opportunity permits.
Like brake pads , disk wear can be determined and evaluated.

Pressure plates can be tested for appropriate pressure.

Typically, because I do not think it is too expensive, I do
the pressure plate and throw out bearing when the disk is replaced.
Just as a practice.

Back when I raced we would blow clutches pretty often and replaced only the disks.
The bearings and plates had very few miles and were fine.

Now I am about long life so I am getting full life out of my street clutches.

__________________
80 300D 340K Owned 30 yrs
83 300SD 440K Owned 9 yrs - Daily Driver 150mi/day
02 Z71 Suburban 117,000
15 Toyota Prius 2600 miles
00 Harley Sportster 24k
09 Yamaha R6
03 Ninja 250

How many times do you want to take your transmission out so you can fix it again?

Do you have the luxury of excess time on your hands?

I'm just wondering...

...I mean you can never really tell how long a bit will last - but - hopefully when you replace with new it will last longer.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I am not sure about the 240 d pressure plate but if its a diaphragm type, they will fatigue & fail. the ones that can be disassembled could be rebuilt. Normally if the disk is worn out, its unlikely the pressure plate will last the life of another disk.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

... part of the reason that I ask is that when I was down in California I was fortunate to visit Charlie, and he showed me a relatively new pressure plate that had broken springs. I don't know if that relates to the Febi motor mount thread (are new pressure plates made in China nowadays?).

Kurt

__________________
- '79 240D - engine swap complete! Engine broken in! 28-31 mpg! Lovin' the ride!
- '86 190D (W201-126) - 2.5 NA engine, 5 speed, cloth interior, manual climate controls, 33-34 mpg (sold to forum member).

I would not go through the hassle of pulling the tranny to replace just the disc on a car I was going to keep, just too get it back on the road, yah maybe.

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Agreed. The biggest expense in a clutch job is the friction disc, so might as well keep everything in chronological order with that. Unless you can't actually afford the pressure plate, you have a lot of time on your hands/a nice work space, and you need the car driving, then you could put off replacing the pressure plate, but I'd prefer it to be about the same age as the friction disc.

BTW, this is advice from a cheap bastard.

__________________
1983 240D 3.0T 4-speed manual, now sold

1989 Subaru GL Wagon 5-speed Touring Edition

What broke on mine was the Disk, only had 21K miles on it. there are 6 springs around the center of it, and 2 broke oposite to ea other, and a piece of metal under the center plate they are afixed to is broken. the 6 springs are in 3 sizes, it is the 2 largest that broke. this is a Sachs Disk. at $148 I don`t want to replace it too often.

I had pulled the transmission for another reason, (long story) and was replacing it. the input shaft wouldn`t go back in the splines. so removed the clutch assy, and found the pilot bearing had fallen out when I removed the trans. this is how after 21k I found the broken springs.

The pressure plate has the Diaphram type springs, they do get weak over time. My Datsun pick Up uses the same type (almost carbon copy) of pressure plate. my experience is the springs or long flat levers get tired over time and won`t disingauge the clutch fully, and can get some grinding trying to get into gear, or will creep when in gear and stopped.

The throw out (release) bearing pushes against the Pressure plate springs when the peddle is depressed. this puts wear on the ends where the 2 meet. I have seen deep wear marks in these levers.

The TO bearing is greased when new, and are nice and tight. when they have a lot of miles on them, they do get dry and have a rough or noisy feel to them. there is really no way to regrease them as they seem to be sealed.

The pilot bearing just holds the end of the input shaft in the crank shaft. might be able to cheapen out on this one. but is only a $6 part.


SOOOO, this all depends on how many miles you have on the parts, how long you are going to keep the car, and how much you drive it, or how far.

Kurt, I know how much work you are doing to it, and will have it for the next 20 years or.....? the engine project digs into the budget quite a bit, so I know the feeling of where can I cut down on the out go some? I know how pricy these parts are, but I also know the satisfaction and feeling of all new parts.

When Iam over 100,000 miles and already in there, then I just replace everything. If it`s an unknown as to how long the parts have been there, I might just replace things. Like my 80 240, have had it for a year now with an unknown clutch. do notice a noise when I first start it. push in the clutch, it goes away. then after a little but it goes away. just does it when cold and first start. might be the throw out bearing or ....
so when I do get in there and remove the trans, will just probably replace evrything. but for now it is working, and going to leave evrything as is.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Just like how it is required to machine the flywheel for proper operation of your new clutch disk the pressure plate also has a pre-machined face on it, if you fail to address either surface by either cheaping on machine work for the flywheel or replaceing the pressure plate you are seriously comprimising the life of your new disk and creating a possiblity of pulsations and vibrations from out of spec surface run-out. So without even addressing the wear from the throw out bearing on the springs or a springs tendency to loose tension under heat and stress and untold miles yes you should replace the pressure plate. While the trans is split you should replace every wear part, and make no mistake everyone of those parts is a wear component (why do you think they all come in a clutch kit?). You get what you pay for, so dont buy the cheap shucks clutch kit if you are concerned with quality.

__________________
1996 s10 zr2 with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1996 c2500 suburban with a 6.5 turbo diesel
1981 300sd with a turbo 617
Monte carlo figure 8 car

I second this. Since asbestos is not used anymore new materials are much more prone to vibration if surfaces are not perfect (don't ask how I know and all the frustration of taking everything out again). This means new pressure plate and bringing the flywheel to a machine shop hoping there is still enough material on it to remain within specs after surfacing.

On the other hand, I just got a manual trans, clutch kit and flywheel out of a car in view of an auto to standard conversion. Friction plate does not show much wear, surfaces look good so I'm going to put everything as is. I believe there is at least 70.000 miles of life left in it which will take some years.

If you are really on a budget, check in junkyards. You may find clutches with a lot of life left in them for cheap. Take all the parts that have been working together, including flywheel if cheap, and put them on your car. If the flywheel is expensive but the friction plate still of the asbestos type, you can try to have it work with your flywheel.

To be fair it only takes 4 hours to get a manual trans out and back in on the 616....

With that low mileage I would only replace the disk assuming everything was done new last time.

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

There are circumstances where the engine or transmission may need to come out several times in one year.

My rule of thumb.

* How is it acting?
* What does the flywheel look like?
* What does the pressure plate/springs look like?
* What does the clutch Disc look like?

Parts Manufacturers are incredibly variable:
* Design/engineering production changes.
* Material supply quality variation.
* Seasonal impact on production quality/durability.


Some pressure plate/spring assemblies can last 250K, and others 3 miles.

I have had a few clutch Disc last 125K, and others less than one mile.

I had one flywheel last 500K without re-surfacing, changed everything else on a three month aggressive maintenance schedule.

If you machine the flywheel you should also shim it away from the crank to compensate for the thickness removed. If you don't the clutch pedal will engage closer to the floor. I have two cars that way at present.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Interesting... so, just take some thin aluminum sheet metal (like flashing?), cut to size, drill twelve holes, and install between crank and flywheel?

Kurt

__________________
- '79 240D - engine swap complete! Engine broken in! 28-31 mpg! Lovin' the ride!
- '86 190D (W201-126) - 2.5 NA engine, 5 speed, cloth interior, manual climate controls, 33-34 mpg (sold to forum member).