OT: but always on topic... secure raised vehicles! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tomscat1 · #1 03-12-2011, 09:45 AM

I hate to be that guy, but... here we go again. It happens. Item from today's local paper.

Waterford — A 21-year-old man was killed Friday afternoon after the car he was working on in a home garage fell on top of him, according to police and emergency responders.
The injured person was extricated from under the car by firefighters from the...

http://theday.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=JV0RQIJQUHW1&issue=199520 11031200000000001001&article=e295a1c6-9afc-44bc-bee9-d053389c46ce

Stay safe, fellas. Always, always use redundant safety systems whenever you are under the car. Please.

charmalu · #2 03-12-2011, 10:36 AM

I always think about it everytime Iam under the car. I check and double check things, but still.........stuff happens. can`t be too safe.

I think about it when Iam under there, especially here in calif, because of the earthquakes. don`t happen often,(large one`s) but do happen. there are quakes every day, just too small to be detected.

the one that just happened in Japan, really gets you to thinking.

It would be interesting to see how the guy had his car raised and supported. there is more to it than to just read "car fell and killed mechanic". still too bad it happened.

there are some pictures floating around here of some Moron working on his truck tipped sideways with a 4x4 at an angle holding it up, and him sitting under it welding. so when Iam raising one of mine up, I repeat. "Iam not a Moron" three times

so far it has worked.

Charlie

tomscat1 · #3 03-12-2011, 04:37 PM

"That's sad. I've had about half the weight of a 96 Intrepid on me before. The front jackstands went straight through the framerails(rusted-little did I know). I was doing bottom end work while my buddy Don was doing the rear wheel cylinders on our buddy's car. Don nearly had a heart attack when the car fell on me. Luckily the rear jackstands held and the car was high enough from them that I wasn't pinned. Scary, but I got out, finished my beer, jacked the car back up, and finished torquing the oil pan. It never did drive straight after that day. Just like gsum said, check, check, and double check that jackstands EVERY time, just in case."

This was a response from another forum to this news item. I guess I usually think of jacks, jackstands, etc. failing... I hadn't really thought about the jack stand going thru the rust. Sheesh. And we don't often have to worry about earthquakes in CT. Lots to think about.

In addition to multiple sturdy jack stands I like to put something under an upraised tire... A big block of wood Or a spare tire rim ... Something to give me that little escape route if all else fails. I don't know many guys who can bench press a car off their chest.... I know I can't, and I don't want to have to prove it.

Safety first.

JohnM. · #4 03-12-2011, 05:43 PM

Nothing wrong with throwing a wheel under there as a second or even third backup. Even when using jack stands, I keep a floor jack tensioned under at least one jacking point. Who knows.

alamostation · #5 03-12-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnM.

Nothing wrong with throwing a wheel under there as a second or even third backup. Even when using jack stands, I keep a floor jack tensioned under at least one jacking point. Who knows.

Always a double safety catch. Triple if possible. Nobody ever got crushed under a car from being too careful. Many have bought the farm not being careful enough.

I know from experience it is possible to accidently kick a jackstand out from under a car. Thankfully, no one was injured, just scared as Hell.

NoSparkNeeded · #6 03-12-2011, 07:36 PM

I have been working on cars since age 14. I'm pushing 60 now. I have never been all that careful, but here's a scary story. I live in NorCal. I was at a yard out where all the yards are by Watsonville, getting parts off an old Jag that was supported only on loose rims under the body. They were NOT bolted to hubs. They were on the edge holding up the body like a jack. I worked all day getting the parts I needed. I drove home. Parked. The Loma-Prieta quake happened about 10 minutes later. I have no doubt I missed death by about 45 minutes. Am I any more careful? Naw, not really. Perhaps I do get out the jack stands now, if I think I'm going to be "down there" for a while.

layback40 · #7 03-12-2011, 08:28 PM

When ever we have a car off the ground here I get the guy who is going to be under it to grab the side & then the front/back & shake it as hard as he can to see if he can make it fall.
When you are wrenching hard on a bolt it is easy to move a car sideways & off the stands if its not supported well.
I once saw a guy trying to undo a bolt on a pitman arm, The car started to topple over, he realized what he was doing & so started to wrench the other way until the car was back level on the stands. He was white & shaking when he got out from under it.

tomscat1 · #8 03-12-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

When ever we have a car off the ground here I get the guy who is going to be under it to grab the side & then the front/back & shake it as hard as he can to see if he can make it fall.
When you are wrenching hard on a bolt it is easy to move a car sideways & off the stands if its not supported well.
I once saw a guy trying to undo a bolt on a pitman arm, The car started to topple over, he realized what he was doing & so started to wrench the other way until the car was back level on the stands. He was white & shaking when he got out from under it.

I heartily applaud you for that. I do the same thing... I shake it as hard as I can before I go under it.

Never trust a jack; use multiple sturdy jackstands; chock the wheels in both directions; check the jackstand points to make sure they are solid and not too rusty; put a spare rim or a solid block under the wheel nearest where you are working. A couple of inches can save your life.

This is a great hobby and it is loads of fun. I love it. But I really don't want to post an article like this again, so please, everyone, use your head and be safe.

tomscat1 · #9 03-14-2011, 08:14 AM

Today's paper had a front page article on the young man who was killed under his car.

Changing the oil on his BMW. Jack failed. Very sad.

Waterford man died doing what he loved most

vstech · #10 03-14-2011, 08:47 AM

maybe if more floor jacks came with ratcheting locks like the better models, this could be avoided... and the ones without ratcheting locks should NOT stay up! I have a floor jack that will lift 3 tons, and it works great, but you have to pump it to keep it at a certain height. it FORCES me to use a jackstand. believe me, it's annoying, but it's better than getting complacent with a jack that could drop at any time...

SD Blue · #11 03-14-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnM.

Nothing wrong with throwing a wheel under there as a second or even third backup. Even when using jack stands, I keep a floor jack tensioned under at least one jacking point. Who knows.

Ditto, I've had to do a couple of emergency parking lot replacements of a starter using a tire changing jack. A spare tire, placed in a critical spot, is a great backup that will at least keep you from getting crushed.

I definitely agree with the shake test, as well. Sometimes the eyeballing of jackstand placement is a little askew when you lower it in place.

ah-kay · #12 03-15-2011, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

I always think about it everytime Iam under the car. I check and double check things, but still.........stuff happens. can`t be too safe.

I think about it when Iam under there, especially here in calif, because of the earthquakes. don`t happen often,(large one`s) but do happen. there are quakes every day, just too small to be detected.

the one that just happened in Japan, really gets you to thinking.

It would be interesting to see how the guy had his car raised and supported. there is more to it than to just read "car fell and killed mechanic". still too bad it happened.

there are some pictures floating around here of some Moron working on his truck tipped sideways with a 4x4 at an angle holding it up, and him sitting under it welding. so when Iam raising one of mine up, I repeat. "Iam not a Moron" three times

so far it has worked.

Charlie

It happened to me last year with the quake near Calexico. I felt the ground shaked and it took me a few seconds to realize it was an earthquake. I got the hell out of it immediately. Went into the garden and the water in my swimming pool was moving from side to side. It was quite a sight, like water shaking in a bowl, but on a much larger scale.

I always take precaution when I work on car, never work on car with jack alone, use axle stands or ramp.

Life is fragile. My motto is : Enjoy life as if there is no tomorrow but save and invest as if you are going to live to 100. Look at what happened to Japan. I made a donation to Red Cross for Japanese quake relief and hope they pull thru OK. The biggest risk now is the Nuclear meltdown.

tomscat1 · #13 03-23-2011, 09:23 PM

I was stunned to receive this post today in a BMW forum from the father of the young man who was crushed by his car recently.... The subject of this thread. I present it in it's entirety.

"I am Christian Klorczyk's father
Good Day,

I feel that I must respond to this post for the sake of accuracy, the honor of my son and family name and also to attempt to save other lives.

Lynne and I are the parents of three sons, Frederick III, Christian, Parker and our "adopted sons", his twin brother Jordan, Dimitri and Dan - all "carguys".

As stated in the article....

"The 21-year-old died Friday after a BMW he was working on collapsed on him in the family garage. Fred Klorczyk said that a floor jack likely failed while his son (Christian) was under the car changing the oil."

Jeff Johnson did a great job on the article on our son, brother and friend and I thank him for that. Jeff was a true gentleman who talked to us for hours in our darkest times to get an accurate depiction of our son and family. However, and unfortunately we do not have it on tape, nor is Jeff a "gearhead" and doesn't really understand jacks, jackstands and multiple layers of safety. I never said, nor is it accurate to say "that a floor jack likely failed..."

Christian is an experienced mechanic who started working on cars and following Formula 1 when he was a small child. He and our whole family witnessed Ayrton "Magic" Senna die at Tamburello 15 years ago. Yes, Christian was only six at the time and he would wake all of us up at 6:30AM to watch the pre-race show in Italy on satellite.

Christian is a true car guy as are his brothers and friends. My business is in the most safety conscious market in the world - nuclear boats, nuclear ships and nuclear power plants. That mentality is my life - has been since I was a kid engineer out of school. Ask any of my employees how I feel about safety. They have the right to stop any job and call me at anytime as no one is to ever get injured on our jobsites. This naturally carried over to my homelife. By the way, my father was a large machine mechanic by trade and a "gearhead" by avocation. No one would use the wrong tools - we have them all and all are of quality. No one in my garage or driveway would ever go under a car with only a jack of any kind holding it up. The jack elevates the car, jackstands support at proper points while working underneath and the jack is removed to improve accessibility. Period. Block the wheels if necessary. Emergency brake on. Car in gear. A lift would be better but we just were not at that point in our lives yet.

Christian had the right front tire off so that he could shine his double halogen lights on the work area and see clearly. He also had that tire/wheel under the right front rotor as an extra measure of safety as is a habit of ours when possible. He had four ton Craftsman jackstands in use. Two were just bought at Christmas when I sent him to buy a new jack since ours is getting to be five years old. Hydraulic cylinders and seals degrade over time. He didn't buy the jack since he felt what Sears, etc., had were junk so he bought more four ton stands but without safety pins. I did not realize there were redundant safety stands until... it was too late.

Christian was using my father's creeper for the first time. He found the creeper when cleaning the garage over Christmas. When he applied torque to the ratchet handle to break the plug loose, he experienced the law of physics of "equal and opposite reaction". As the plug broke loose, the creeper did also in a direction opposite to the torque vector Christian applied. Some part of Christian's body, some part of the creeper, the mallet beside him, something - we have no video, just supposition and theory... tripped the right front jackstand lever inadvertantly from the underside and a ton of the BMW E46 3 series xi crushed his chest and his right cheekbone. He never took, or could even attempt to take a second breath. Death was immediate and painless. If I were beside him at the time this occurred I could have done nothing to save him. This has been verified by five friends of mine who are doctors. I used the floorjack Christian used to elevate the car to get the car off of him. It was parallel to the car just as he would place it when he removed it from the jackpoint. I had to engage the cylinder with clockwise rotation which tells me Christian removed it per proper procedure. I had the jack underneath and car off him in seconds. Jackstands were under before I crawled from under the valance while Lynne called 911. Lynne came under with me from the wheelwell and had a pulse on his neck. She said he it was strong. I was doing chest compressions and trying to get a verbal response until the EMTs got there. When I heard LIFESTAR waved off over the EMT radios I had a sick, sick feeling.

A critical factor, in my professional engineering opinion, is that the creeper raised his body 3.5" higher than it would have been if he would have been working on the concrete as he was used to. It also raised his head 4.5" higher as there is a foam pillow headrest. Both creeper caster wheels at the head position were sheared from the creeper. I can only wonder that if Christian did not use the creeper would he have had the jackstands that high, would the energy at 9.8 m/sec squared have been decreased to a minimum so that if the freak accident happened he would have been injured less, would the extra measure of the tire under the rotor have saved his life without the extra creeper height, would he be alive today? Only God knows.

Christian is a fine, fine man who was known for his smile, intelligence, passion and willingness to help anyone at anytime... just like all of his brothers and "adopted brothers". The five of them and myself were his pall bearers. He would have it no other way. We were that close.

Also, to my fellow "carguys" and "gearheads", please learn from this tragedy. Scrap your cheapo jackstands... do your research, find the best jackstands there are, use the secondary and tertiary safety factors, do not fall to the temptation of human nature and operator error - use the extra safety factors! It may save your life, or maybe the life of you son. Had I would have known such Christian would be with us today.

Lastly, if you want to drive fast please do not do it on the road. Racetracks are readily available for that adrenaline rush we all crave. Track days with instructors are cheap and you are protected far more than

Godspeed Christian! May you be driving God's Veyron for him.

Please feel free to cut and past this article anywhere you think it may prove valuable to fellow "carguys". I pray that none of you ever suffer such a tragedy. May God Bless you all.

Frederick J. Klorczyk, Jr.
Waterford, CT
fjk143@aol.com
Last edited by FJKII; Today at 05:17 PM.. Reason: typo"

This was my response to him:

Amen.

As the father of two grown sons, I can only imagine the sorrow and pain you and your family have experienced the past two weeks. Words fail to capture the depth of sadness we feel at your loss. Please accept my sincere and heartfelt condolences. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us in your beautiful letter.
I posted my original post in several other forums, and, based on some of the responses received, I know Christian's story has been read around the world. Many people now know what a great kid he was, and he may have even saved a life. I know that can in no way make up for his loss, but I hope it is some small consolation to you.
God be with you.

Tom
Niantic

Skippy · #14 03-23-2011, 10:01 PM

Yikes! That really makes me question my jackstands. They're Kmart cheapos I bought about ten years ago. At least I leave the jack in place with a little load on it while I'm also using the stands.

tomscat1 · #15 03-25-2011, 08:36 PM

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd205/TKDJimi/IMG_0529.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd205/TKDJimi/IMG_0533.jpg

Check these out.... Posted in in bimmerforums in response to the safety concerns about jack stands, jacks, etc, arising out of the tragic death of Christian Klorczyk in Waterford, CT recently.

I may make a couple of these myself. Great if you aren't doing anything that requires wheel removal, it appears.