Advice on biodiesel - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

eventoday · #1 04-05-2011, 11:50 AM

Hello,

81 240d with 195000 miles. Sorry I just bought it and have already asked a ton of questions.

I am just curious about running it on biodiesel. I have read different thoughts about it. Such as I need to replace hoses and seals or they will deteriorate. Also I have read I can just put it in and go.

I live in Denver and there are a few place to purchase biodiesel. I would love to run it but just not sure if I need to do anything first.

And what grade to buy? (or if I should wait till summer)

thanks again for everbodys help

Jake

dagObx · #2 04-05-2011, 01:27 PM

Biodiesel will run just fine in your car. Yes, over time there is deterioration of rubber fule lines & other rubber items that come into contact with the bio. This happens over time & will not happen right away. Bio will also clean any gunk out of your fuel tanlk, lines, etc., so be prepared to keep fuel filters handy.

I haven't had the problem of gelled fuel since I live in eastern NC. However, since you are in Denver it will be an issue. You can run a blend of bio/D2 during the winter months to keep the gelling problem to a minimum. Others will chime in with suggested ratios of mix. Also, if you are buying commercial biodiesel, it may be that the vendors add anti-gell to their product. You'll need to ask them.

You will also find that your engine will generally run quieter & happer on the bio, although you will suffer up to around 10% reduction in mpg. Bio doesn't have the "energy" in it that D2 does.

I encourage you to use the biodiesel. If you have the time, you may want to investigate home-brewing your own. It takes a little time & effort, but in my mind it's well worth it.

JHZR2 · #3 04-05-2011, 01:37 PM

I like bio. I wouldn't run over B20. I'd really rather be in the range of B2-B5 for cleaning and lubricity. Over that the penalties are too notable energy content-wise.

Squiggle Dog · #4 04-05-2011, 03:49 PM

I run B99 year round except for when I know the temperature could drop under 20 degrees Fahrenheit, then I mix it 50/50 with diesel. B99 seems to gel around 17 degrees Fahrenheit.

If you have old fuel hoses, the biodiesel will melt them over time. It's a good idea to replace the rubber fuel hoses with biodiesel-compatible ones. If you have a lot of sludge and gunk in your tank, the biodiesel will clean the tank and it can clog the fuel tank and fuel filters.

I've never had a problem with filters clogging from biodiesel use. I installed biodiesel-compatible fuel hoses in my last two cars. My 300SD has new fuel hoses that were purchased at the Mercedes dealer by the previous owner. I've had B99 in the tank for about a year and so far have no soft hoses or leaks.

Usually biodiesel is cheaper than diesel, but the place I buy it from always keeps it $1.00 a gallon more than diesel.

JHZR2 · #5 04-05-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Usually biodiesel is cheaper than diesel, but the place I buy it from always keeps it $1.00 a gallon more than diesel.

Then why would you buy it if you know it is overpriced by more than a dollar, AND you get worse economy... meaning it costs you at least $1.10 (assuming 10% energy content penalty)?

spark3542 · #6 04-05-2011, 05:59 PM

Lots of naysayers on alt fuels here, but I say run it on BD.

40k on my 83 (over the course of 4 years) on creative fuels, lots of filter changes, no fuel line changes.

72k on my 97 E300D on creative fuels, lots of filter changes, no fuel line changes, then the car rusted out. Sold it.

23k on my 2005 in 8 months on B100, one fuel filter change (by choice...it wasn't clogged). Cold months I added 10% D2 to keep from gelling (went down to 17 BELOW zero at times...no problem).

Skippy · #7 04-05-2011, 06:09 PM

If you stick to commercially made B20 that meets the ASTM specification, you shouldn't need to do anything different. Your fuel lines might degrade a little faster, but they eventually need replacing regardless of the fuel used. Higher concentrations can be run, but I'm skeptical of the benefits (aside from the foreign-relations and economics issues).

zeke · #8 04-05-2011, 09:23 PM

I ran b100 for a couple of years in both cars and had no problems. the cars were smoother, but got a but worse mileage. If someone opened a consistent b100 station here again I would go right back to it without hesitationg.

bribarn · #9 04-05-2011, 11:19 PM

I run B100 in my '81 240D and am quite happy with it. It's a commercial product that meets ASTM standards. The engine is quieter and smoother. I switched to B100 about six months ago and replaced the lines at that time to avoid any trouble later. I also changed the filters then, and they're still clear. I was expecting a ton of crud to come out of that 30-year-old tank, but so far so good.

It's $4.25 a gallon here in San Francisco, which is on par with D2. For me the lower emissions and not burning petroleum are important reasons to use biodiesel, too. I'm lucky to have it so readily available here.

Squiggle Dog · #10 04-06-2011, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Then why would you buy it if you know it is overpriced by more than a dollar, AND you get worse economy... meaning it costs you at least $1.10 (assuming 10% energy content penalty)?

I don't know of any other place to purchase high concentration biodiesel. I'm doing my part to reduce dependence on petroleum oil and use clean-burning fuels. I cannot in good conscience contribute to the problem. I could wait for the world to change but it would never happen because the people in power are corrupted and it takes individuals to bring change to the world. With the wonderful fuel mileage my 300SD gets, I could pay 7 or 8 dollars per gallon and not be out more than a comparable car with a gasoline engine. I will not sacrifice my values for money. Once one's life becomes focused on money it loses meaning.

JHZR2 · #11 04-06-2011, 01:51 AM

That's all well and good. Im dont really want to argue politics or ideologies on here.

Just keep in mind that it takes a LOT of petrochemical resources to produce the biodiesel, and that would be NG, #2 fuel, etc. which would be excellent for use in transport instead. While biodiesel is a net positive energy fuel (unlike ethanol which is just a political sham for big corporations like Archer Daniels Midland), it has to make sense to me to use it...

I love biodiesel. Made it myself for a long time. Ran my 83 on all sorts of stuff. Unfortunately for all the pushes for all this alt fuels stuff, IMO it has been a total flop and Im very disappointed at how it has all come to pass. Those of us able to make it ourselves from waste fats have a good thing going... But to take so much excess time, energy, space, hassle, pollution (yes, look at wastewater from the processes), etc., just to have the Chinese, Indians, whomever burn the oil because it is a commodity product that WILL be removed, pumped out and used up. Unfortunately that is the sad fact. Humans are self-destructive, and we could use all the alt fuels we want... the rest is still going to be used up and be cheaper for the time being.

I'd rather take the cheaper, higher energy content fuel for myself, with the cost delta, pay into a concern, IPO, etc to get some COST EFFECTIVE biodiesel production off the ground and then start seeing it come in a few cents under #2. The market is there... It just needs to make sense.

Gov't subsidized E85 doesnt make sense to most because the energy content is lower. $1 more pricy bio doesnt make sense to most either because the economics slap you twofold. It really is a shame as bio blended diesel is a great fuel.

frankengrant · #12 04-06-2011, 05:29 AM

Wow a dollar MORE per gallon!? We pay 20-30 cents under D2 here for B99, it's all I use in my car now.

JHZR2 · #13 04-06-2011, 10:34 AM

Wow, for B99??!? That would be absolutely wonderful!!!

Squiggle Dog · #14 04-06-2011, 03:54 PM

It may take petrochemical resources to produce biodiesel at the moment, but that doesn't mean that's the way it always has to be. Just like people arguing that electric cars aren't good for the environment because the power plants that make the electricity use coal or whatever. Electrical energy can come from solar panels or shingles installed on one's house.

I'm all for having a fuel that doesn't release poisonous gasses and carcinogens in the air. I'm not just talking about man-made climate change, but also having pollutant chemicals in the air that people breathe and do harm. Even if there are endless resources of petroleum I don't like the idea of all of the poisonous gasses being released from burning it.

I think the end product is great and I believe that at some point it can be made without irreversibly polluting the earth. I know that what people are doing right now doesn't work and people will see the consequences of it more and more.

I acknowledge that the government is trying to scare people into climate change so that they can have a carbon tax, which I believe is wrong. They play both sides and try to profit from each! But man is destroying the earth and each of us should rethink the things we do because change isn't going to come by waiting for people in power; it's with us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

That's all well and good. Im dont really want to argue politics or ideologies on here.

Just keep in mind that it takes a LOT of petrochemical resources to produce the biodiesel, and that would be NG, #2 fuel, etc. which would be excellent for use in transport instead. While biodiesel is a net positive energy fuel (unlike ethanol which is just a political sham for big corporations like Archer Daniels Midland), it has to make sense to me to use it...

I love biodiesel. Made it myself for a long time. Ran my 83 on all sorts of stuff. Unfortunately for all the pushes for all this alt fuels stuff, IMO it has been a total flop and Im very disappointed at how it has all come to pass. Those of us able to make it ourselves from waste fats have a good thing going... But to take so much excess time, energy, space, hassle, pollution (yes, look at wastewater from the processes), etc., just to have the Chinese, Indians, whomever burn the oil because it is a commodity product that WILL be removed, pumped out and used up. Unfortunately that is the sad fact. Humans are self-destructive, and we could use all the alt fuels we want... the rest is still going to be used up and be cheaper for the time being.

I'd rather take the cheaper, higher energy content fuel for myself, with the cost delta, pay into a concern, IPO, etc to get some COST EFFECTIVE biodiesel production off the ground and then start seeing it come in a few cents under #2. The market is there... It just needs to make sense.

Gov't subsidized E85 doesnt make sense to most because the energy content is lower. $1 more pricy bio doesnt make sense to most either because the economics slap you twofold. It really is a shame as bio blended diesel is a great fuel.

Junkman · #15 04-06-2011, 05:39 PM

Here B20 is more expensive. I also lost a $1000 injection pump on the diesel Ram that the rebuilder attributed to gas in my fuel. I had only filled up at 1 station - the one where I bought the B20. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a sample to be tested so had to eat the cost & install myself. Truck driving friend says that the wrong fuel can easily be dumped into a commercial tank.

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