any thoughts on a 1984 190D? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

10fords · #1 04-08-2011, 01:01 AM

A 1984 190D 5 speed with a 2.2 non turbo engine has come up for sale locally for $3000. I'm not familiar with these like my beloved W123 models so I thought I would ask for some opinions. My son would be the main driver of it if we buy it. Is the 2.2 a good motor? Does it really get 40 mpg as i have seen claimed so often or is it just the usual fantasy? The car has 250k on it according to the owner. I am very partial to my 4 cylinder non turbo 240D, and on the surface it seems the 190d could be somewhat similar. What are the strengths and weaknesses of this model? Thanks for any help- Scott

layback40 · #2 04-08-2011, 03:33 AM

Hey Scott,
There is nothing wrong with N/A motors, RH drive versions have them. The 2.2 should be a solid enough motor. You will soon see a difference from the 61x. Sorry I cant add any more.

barry123400 · #3 04-08-2011, 09:15 AM

The 2.2 with the standard transmission is a more serviceable car than the same engine with the automatic. The fuel milage is the highest of any of the older mercedes as well. This is well documented.

So it boils down to the cars condition. It should be really examined overall by a mechanic really familiar with them. You do not want a moneypit type of situation.

Some plus factors are the engine is a little quieter and can start up really cold easier than the 616 and 617 engines.

TimFreeh · #4 04-08-2011, 10:50 AM

I'm not aware of any endemic problems with the OM601, its proven to be a solid engine. Its also a total departure form the earlier OM61X engines so if you have tools and experience with the older engines not much of the technology transfers.

The W201 chassis is quite a bit smaller that than W123 you're driving, its been my experience that taller people don't fit too well into the W201 especially in the back seat.

I had an 86 190D that I used as a daily driver for 6 years and I was very happy, I routinely would get 40+ mpg using conservative driving techniques.

The first couple of years of the W201 chassis had some strange features that disappeared in later models. IIRC the first couple of years had 14 inch wheels, a small wiper located under the main single wiper blade, a lower dash panel that floated above the center hump and an electromagnetic fan clutch instead of the more common visco-clutch setup.

I agree with Barry - when you are buying a car that is getting on 30 years old condition is everything. I'd look very carefully before I'd drop 3K on an 84 190D.

billhard · #5 04-08-2011, 11:01 AM

I've never owned one but a quick look at the EPA site and fuelly tells me mid 30's on MPG is realistic.

10fords · #6 04-08-2011, 11:16 AM

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm going to look at it this morning and will report my findings. Keep the info coming though please as I will probably just look at it today and see if it is even suitable, then make an offer later. I really don't think it is a buy on sight for asking price car, although I could be wrong. Scott

chasinthesun · #7 04-08-2011, 11:17 AM

Ive Owned 2 auto 2.2s and one standard ,youll like the 5spd stick although it will probably need a master cylinder and slave cylinder replaced soon if it never was been serviced. I would take the advice of others and have it looked at for leaks at these 2 points ,the brake reservior also serves as the hydro fluid for this setup.In regards to the motor it will usually have a problem with the leaking injector seals at the injector pump .You are required to buy an $80 SPECIAL SOCKET from MB to pull the old rubber seal out and replace with new.Look for leaks here also.If a shop was to do this for you it would run north of $600 easy .Any service records?

ah-kay · #8 04-08-2011, 12:01 PM

It is a nice little car. Upper 35+mpg is a given. No valves to adjust, unlike the 617 engine. 190D is rare and 5sp is even rarer. However, $3K for a 28 years old car is a lot of money. A gasser 190 would command much less. You can buy 3 gasser for $1K each and run them to the ground so you have to make sure the 190D will last 3 times as a gasser. I doubted.

The other issue is ODO. Mine broke and I fixed it. The headlight plastic lens would be all crapped out if they are original. Radiator may be on its last leg. Likewise for CV boots. A/C working? Plus other issues mentioned by members. So there may be some serious money to be spent. Mine has some niggling issues but nothing serious enough to stop it from running.

I like mine and I even installed remote keyless entry to the car. It was VERY difficult to do as there is limited space for the plunger but the convenience is worth it, IMO.

Good luck.

cornblatt · #9 04-08-2011, 12:19 PM

I currently have a 190D-2.2 5-speed with around 250000 miles on it. Of all the cars I've owned, this is my favourite. I've had it since 2003; if something happened to it I'd look for another 190D.

You can get 40+ mpg on the highway, in good weather, without the A/C on, driving moderately. Upper 30s is common for mixed city-highway driving, low 30s for sub-zero winter city driving.

It's a smaller car than other mercedes, which is one of the reasons I like it - I consider the small size a positive, not a negative. I'm 6' tall and don't find it cramped. The back seat doesn't have a ton of legroom but it's adequate (I've been in many other cars that are worse). It has a very small turning radius.

As barry123400 said, cold weather operation is good. We had a month and a half of -25°C (-13°F) weather this winter and I never had to use the block heater once.

I find it relatively easy to service; things are fairly well laid out and being 4cyl and non-turbo, there's sufficient room in the engine bay to work on things.

The climate control system is great. I never have to touch the temperature setting; the car is always comfortable. Note that the center vents blow unheated air; sometimes people think this is a sign that something is broken, but it's supposed to work that way.

Negatives:
- I thought the stock headlights were horrible. I switched to european headlamps, which I prefer.
- Old OM60x vacuum pumps can fail and do some serious damage to the engine; if you're the cautious type, then plan on changing to the newer style of pump if it hasn't been done already. If the vacuum pump has no screws on the cover, it is the old style.
- Some special tools are required to work on the car. I've had to buy the mercedes spring compressor, the injection pump socket chasinthesun mentioned, a timing chain crimper, and I've fabricated most of the other tools I've needed. I don't consider this unreasonable, but it's something to be aware of.
- Driveshaft support bearings don't seem to last long. I'm on my 3rd.
- The belt tensioner system needs parts more often than I think it should. I've had to replace it twice.

As others have said, condition and prior maintenance are important; I was fortunate enough to find a car whose previous (and only) owner was meticulous about maintenance, and I think that is a big reason the car has worked out so well for me.

ds190 · #10 04-08-2011, 03:11 PM

To echo above, for $3K and 250K miles, that car better be in great condition, everything working, and no (not even jack points) rust. That's a very ambitious asking price.

Mine is a rust bucket with 215K miles and dents, the girlfriend will not be seen in it, but the 5 speed is just so much fun to drive.

There is a slight issue with the 601 and the headgasket that blows out between the timing chain area and cylinder 1, pouring oil into it. Aluminum head and iron block; I replaced one gasket, but the current 190D is ok so far.

Also look at the window regulators, the door checks, center support bearing/bushing, and the flex discs. The 84 does have 14" wheels, and the two blade non-reciprocating wiper, and the short "floating" center console.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and all the rust would dissappear

Bob338 · #11 04-08-2011, 03:50 PM

I've owned a 190D with automatic since new. It was my wife's car and she was very possesive and wouldn't let me touch it, always dealer serviced. I've inherited it recently. Mine is clean as a pin, California car with not a bit of rust and little parking lot rash, 122K miles, but has a bunch of little electrical things wrong due to age and a not demanding driver for the mechanical and electrical problems. At 75-80 mph on a freeway I got 36 mpg on a recent 500 mile trip. I've put in tremendous time and effort, new dashboard, later model center console and most gauges, and about $1500 in parts and tires but I'd figure even as clean as it is I'd have a hard time getting $3K for mine even if I wouldn't sell it for that. I figure to spend a bit of time and money on it to keep it going. Not a sound investment but a helluva lot of fun both to drive and tinker with.

10fords · #12 04-08-2011, 07:54 PM

Well, I test drove the car this morning and didn't even make an offer on it. The ad said it had a new radiator, water pump,brakes, all filters, and a complete service(whatever that means). It definitely had none of the above as they were all corroded and covered with oil from the numerous BAD leaks! The clutch made a nasty grinding noise and the frontend wobbled worse than my tractor at speed! I am an experienced car buyer so I usually don't put a lot of faith in ads, but for all the vehicles I've ever looked at it was in the top 5 for blatant misrepresentation. I won't even get into the "clean inside and out" claim. Since it was close by I got out easy, but if I had driven any distance to see it I would have been pissed! I really don't understand why some people will boldfaced lie about a vehicles condition- do they think you will just overlook it when you come to see the car? The seller was an independent garage that had supposedly worked on the car for the last 10 years so I'm sure they were aware of its problems. They seemed to be pushing the biodiesel/veggieoil thing so I guess they are waiting for some poor hippie whose ideology will override their common sense to buy it site unseen! (no offense to oil burners or hippies, I have done one and been called the other before) Anyway, I'll pass on the contact info for anyone interested in a 190D that needs: A new clutch, tires, interior, paint, suspension, radiator, climate control, sunroof motor, steering, brakes, and maybe an engine (but all diesels are noisy) for the bargain price of $3250. Let me know!

P.S. thanks for all the advice etc. as I am still keeping my eyes open for a car like that, just in better condition!- Scott

babymog · #13 04-08-2011, 09:27 PM

Wow. Sounds as bad as a "clean" car I drove 1000miles to see in Nashville.

chasinthesun · #14 04-09-2011, 11:28 AM

The slave or master cylinders were leaking ,they were hoping to fill up the reservior and send you on your way ,probably 4 miles til you tried to change gears and you couldnt release the clutch ,nice guys.Red flag it on criagslist if thats were you originally seen their ad.

10fords · #15 04-09-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

The slave or master cylinders were leaking ,they were hoping to fill up the reservior and send you on your way ,probably 4 miles til you tried to change gears and you couldnt release the clutch ,nice guys.Red flag it on criagslist if thats were you originally seen their ad.

I did see it on craigslist. How do you red flag something? It is on the Monterey California craigslist and located in Pacific Grove at a repair shop called Greg Bean Auto. Hopefully this will save someone some time and grief. It's too bad because if they had honestly described it and priced it accordingly I probably would have bought it and they would have gained a customer for future repairs. Unfortunately, even if some PP members in the area were to tell me they are a great shop, I still wouldn't go there based on the blatant lies I was told. I would post a link but I can't figure out how to- sorry. Just search 190D in Monterey and it is the only one.