Cost estimate for OM606 head removal for GP replacement... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jetmugg · #1 06-08-2011, 02:29 PM

I have a buddy who is looking at a '96 W210 with the non-turbo OM606 engine. He has been told that the check engine light is on due to a bad glow plug. This car is at a local "import" dealer who is familiar with MB cars.

My advice to my buddy is to tell the dealer that purchasing the car is contingent on replacing ALL of the glow plugs, not just the 1 that is causing the problem.

The dealer is reluctant to pull the head off the engine in order to repair the bad GP, and he can't get the plug out by the conventional means. I told my buddy that this is a common problem with this engine, and that he should insist on getting all the plugs replaced before he buys it, or get the price of the car reduced by the amount of $$ required to properly replace all the plugs.

At this point, I'm trying to help my friend by coming up with a good estimate to have a pro shop pull the head, replace the GP's, and replace the head. Can anyone provide an actual cost, or a decent estimate of how much this procedure will cost? I know it's going to be labor intensive, but don't have any good firsthand experience with this engine and it's GP issues.

Any help would be appreciated.

SteveM.

compress ignite · #2 06-08-2011, 02:52 PM

Video of Klann tool set for removal of stuck and broken Glow Plugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koghDoROFko

Yeah,gotta love those "Shade Trees" that want to slide a New "Titanic" under
neath the Deck Chairs.

('Cause they ReFuse to purchase the proper tools for the job!)

Y'all start calling around,SOMEONE will have the Klann Set.
[Unfortunately, It may be a Stealership]

The "Clownistas" who have ownership have no Idea "What's Up"
(the fact that they "Buy Into" R+R ing the Head to replace glow plugs,
proves they're "Muffin Heads".)
I wouldn't allow them to have even the Bad Glow Plug replaced
'Too much chance of FURTHER damage.

GregMN · #3 06-08-2011, 03:50 PM

"check engine" light does not come on for a bad glow plug. The bad glow plug indicator is completely separate from the "check engine" light.

Find out what else is causing the CEL.

Get your price quote from a MB dealer. Use that price as your negotiating point.

If your friend can get the car cheap enough, just drive it.

Jetmugg · #4 06-08-2011, 04:04 PM

I believe the code is P1369, which means a glow plug failure on cyl # 5 or #6.

compress ignite · #5 06-08-2011, 04:14 PM

Gregg in MN

Jetmugg · #6 06-08-2011, 04:28 PM

Thank you very much.

Steve.

jusme · #7 06-08-2011, 04:44 PM

Uh Hum,

NO Special tools required...

Just patience and a creative outlook.

TylerH860 · #8 06-08-2011, 05:00 PM

With machine shop glow plug extraction I can see R&R of the head topping $2000 easily.

Jetmugg · #9 06-08-2011, 05:14 PM

I think $2K is a realistic figure for head R&R including broken glowplug extraction. The purpose of this exercise is to convince the guy who has the E300D on his lot that he must either replace the glowplugs, or reduce the asking price in accordance with the cost to have them replaced. I'm sure that he knows about the difficulty of replacing these broken GP's. He specializes in German cars.

The local dealer obviously has the option to refuse the request to replace the GP's or reduce his price. I just suggested to my buddy that he should not be willing to pay the full asking price for a car that may need up to $2K worth of repairs. The seller may agree to some price reduction, then my buddy can decide whether to fix the GP's himself or pay to have the work done.

Steve

layback40 · #10 06-08-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusme

Uh Hum,

NO Special tools required...

Just patience and a creative outlook.

You were very lucky in your extraction method! Definitely worth a try though.

layback40 · #11 06-08-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

With machine shop glow plug extraction I can see R&R of the head topping $2000 easily.

Sadly I think this figure is about right.
You are often opening a can of worms when you take a head off.
Valves needing reseating, timing chain stretched, head needing machining, bad lifters or cam, the list goes on.
If the dealer doesnt want to take $2k off the price, ask him to do the GP fix.
& make sure its done properly!!

Jeremy5848 · #12 06-08-2011, 10:35 PM

Do we know how many miles this car has on it? That might help with the estimate of "while you're in there" costs. Depending on miles and previous care, the engine may or may not need a timing chain & tensioner, valve guides and seals, etc. That can add a lot to the initial job of head R&R. Also argues for using every possible trick to remove the stuck glow plug before pulling the head.

TMAllison · #13 06-08-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

I believe the code is P1369, which means a glow plug failure on cyl # 5 or #6.

You are correct about the code. P1_369 would be the fault code for a bad GP on cyl 5 or 6. Most low end scanners won't report that code. I don't know if it lights the CEL or not. i suspect it does.

If the CEL is lit and its not reporting P1369, it would seem logical it would be P0380 instead. Starting on cold plug(s).

Teh video Compress Ignite linked to is neat and has been around for a couple of years. Unfortunately, its of a CDI and not a 606. The CDI has milled depressions in the head where the GP's seat that the 606 doesnt have which facilatates the use of that factory tool set. There is a factory tool for the 606. Most dealers don't have it though. Was too specialized and too small an audience to warrant purchasing for most dealers.

Kartek posted a neat helicoil insert that I cant remember the name of...... It would give you a chance to attempt to drill and remove with pullers knowing you could go to the insert later if you mesed up the hole getting it out.

jusme · #14 06-08-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

You were very lucky in your extraction method! Definitely worth a try though.

It hasn't failed me yet. And I've done many of these on various models for folks over the years. This method has saved alot of money and labor. I'll attempt to summarize.

This involves a liberal spraying of Deep Creep or Croil, and respraying. Carbon can put a death grip on glow plugs. And more often than not, the preceding symptoms of a glow plug that breaks off while removing is a car that is difficult or impossible to start. Then comes the ether, which can balloon the plug (among with many other horrible problems) and make the carbon's hold on it that much tighter.

Once you are satisfied that no more Deep Creep will work it's way in no matter how long you wait or how many cans you empty, start to crank the metal screw in with a ratchet and socket (it needs to be a hex head screw with as large of a beveled top as you can find, and it needs to be of a length that 3/4" to 1" will protrude once tight, that part may take some trial and error) until it starts to turn the impacted plug. You'll hear a carbon fueled high pitched squeak when it starts to spin in that unhardened diamond making material.

Take an adjustable wrench, and set the jaws tight around the shaft of the screw and position them against the head of the screw. Then, using a pry bar or screwdriver of some size, start to pry it out. It's ok if you are prying it down or up in the beginning. The bottom line here is any distance you are prying, is to some degree distance you are working to dislodge it. If you have a helper that can apply steady pry pressure as you turn the ratchet and spin the plug, that's even better. Go slow, and take a break, respray the plug, and turn it a bit more to get another angle on it, and to help loosen it. As it starts to come out, you will either lose leverage or run out of room to pry. That's a good thing. That means it's making it's way out.

At this point, use a shim of some sort between the head, and the pry bar. I use pliers, vise grips, anything that can slide around the screw and provide a fresh source to pry against that is farther away from the head. If you choose vise grips, leave them just loose enough to allow the screw and plug electrode to pass through them as you pry, or you can pry to the cylinder head side of the vice grips if that's better for you, just be mindful of what you are prying against. Depending on how far it's in there, and how much of it broke off, you may need to add a second pair of vise grips as another shim for more spacing. Keep prying until it feels like its getting notably easier. Then, make one more angle adjustment and pry the last bit out, hopefully breaking a good chunk of carbon off with that last angle change.

Once it's out, do not simply trying to push in another plug... Get a reamer, and remove all the carbon. In a pinch, I've used hardened steel drill bits of graduating sizes (only do this if you simply cannot wait for the proper reaming tool, or if doing this in a somewhat stranded remote area). But really strive to own a glow plug reamer. It should be a tool we all own if you are here to learn about even routine maintenance. Once all the carbon is removed, insert the new plug.

Then, treat yourself to a good dinner. And don't skimp on the price. You just saved over $1000 you cheapskate!

Regards,

sokoloff · #15 06-09-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

"check engine" light does not come on for a bad glow plug. The bad glow plug indicator is completely separate from the "check engine" light.

Find out what else is causing the CEL.

Get your price quote from a MB dealer. Use that price as your negotiating point.

If your friend can get the car cheap enough, just drive it.

Check engine and glow plug light came on when I had a bad glow plug. Happened twice and once neither light came on. Great DIY here by Lightman also indicates that the check engine light will come on with the glow plug light.

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