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8mm elements for mw pump
Hi guys, I've been all over the net trying to sort out my options for my project. I have a 617 that came out of a snow cat type of machine and the plan has been to put it into my '87 one -ton chevy truck but I'm concerned about power (or lack thereof). I'm not really looking for a hot rod but I want to be able to haul a load of firewood anywhere that truck will go.
Tomnik posted some part#s somewhere for 8mm elements and I found a source for them in Germany as I refuse to buy chinese. I e-mailed the outfit ,(they are DTP-Motorteile) and they said that these elements are used in renault. bosch # 1 418 415 058 eur. 23,30 ea. Renault# 50 00 808 505 Tomnik, you also posted # 1 418 415 049 and it is an element also , what is the difference between the two? I know there are a few guys trying this out , but I haven't heard of the end results yet. My plan was to install the engine as is, and if power is too pitiful, then perform this mod. Hopefully leave the turbo stock, and mount an air/air aftercooler in front of the radiator. I'm hoping to gain some insight from your experiences to help me determine whether my efforts would be better spent in another direction. My main goal is improved fuel economy 'cause this thing is a gas hog. thanks. |
#2
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Hey,
Try looking at SuperTurboDiesel and Dieselmeiken's threads and posts. |
#3
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While it is quite possible to build a 617, 603 or 606 - whatever, up to a level that will power your '87, it will be a pretty hard life for the engine. I don't know how long you expect it to last but the HP/displacement ratio would be pretty high.
It's almost like building a 1000 cc motorcycle engine to power a mid size sedan.
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-Evan Benz Fleet: 1968 UNIMOG 404.114 1998 E300 2008 E63 Non-Benz Fleet: 1992 Aerostar 1993 MR2 2000 F250 |
#4
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... keep in mind the 1987 6.2 diesel truck was sold from chevy with 135HP... the rear gearing in that truck likely is 4.56 or 4.10 behind a TH400 transmission... the turbo 617 would be a decent power motor for those loads. top speed is likely to be only around 65 though...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#5
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135 hp but what is the torque, and at what speed? for the gm diesel. Seems the 617 is going to be a bit underpowered even after hp improvements. You say 1 ton, is this a dually? If so cummins 4bt or really 6bt. I am sort of thinking of putting a 617 turbo in my 47 Dodge. mainly because I have a spare 617 in good shape, and my 47 needs either a rebuild or another engine. It is a tired 304 international in it now. It weighs 5000lbs empty, so really am in the same boat as you, a bit to heavy for the engine, but it will do it, just not going to be fast. If I do it I will tune it up a bit, but not likely mess with larger elements. Now with my 240 I do plan larger elements, but I have done a number of other things to it also.
As for bigger elements, seems most can get up to about 150hp on the stock ip.
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1977 240D turbo |
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Yeah , it's got a 350 tbi with th400 and 4.10's, and yes ,It's a duelly crew cab. I'm planning on using a 700r4 that used to be behind a 6.2. If i can get 150hp by tweakin the gov. I might be satisfied with that, but I'm scared to death that ,after all this work, I'll be unhappy with the results. problem is, i got the om617 for free and I don't have the dough to come up with what I really want, wich is a 12v cummins. I t's possible that you might see a 617 w/ gm adapter kit for sale soon.
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I've got a few 6.2's and 6.5's available... alaska is just a touch far away to deliver it though...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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yeah..........
Last edited by merchevy; 11-23-2011 at 10:28 PM. |
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one more thing is the 617 a turbo motor? this would be a 617a. as there is a non turbo also. the non turbo I would not put in.
Crew cab too, hmmmm getting heavyer... the other things to think about is how are you going to use it. If long distance high speed trips in hilly areas then you are likely to be unhappy. Short trips, running around town, etc then it should be ok. Just remember you are almost double the weight of the vehicle that it came out of. you know I want to say yes go do it, cool project, but I have my reservations about this.
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1977 240D turbo |
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... yeah, in 87 the TBI 350 has over 180HP... it'll be tough to get the low preturbo power of the 617 to move that truck with 4.10 gears... IF you want the 617 to function well, I'd recommend 4.56 gears. and only for hills, and town/farm speeds. it'd suck pretty bad on the highway.
remember before you attempt this, how the truck feels from idle accleration, then factor 1/4 the off throttle hp available until you hit around 2000RPM and the turbo can kick in. also realize that truck is designed for a rear sump oil pan... the 617 has the sump up front...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#11
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Where does this "617a" nomenclature come from? The 617-912 is a non turbo and the turbo's are 617-95X. "X" = one of the several version of the turbo motor. The 951 is in the 77-79 w116. The 952 is in the early w123 for example.
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#12
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The 617 is turbo, it's 120hp as it sits, I don't know what it could achieve after gov. tweaking but I think it would still be a little weak. I live 34 mi. from town and would make lightly loaded trips there fairly often, and sometime in fwd all the way. The oil pan thing was in the back of my mind as a concern and i guess it should have been up front.
Thanks for your input guys, I think i could get same or close to the same fuel economy out a Cummins with a lot more power and eliminate a lot of doubt. I probably will give the engine back to the guy that gave it to me, but if you know someone who might be interested in the adapter kit, let me know. |
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Quote:
the .950 is the 77-80 w116, the .951 is the 81-85 126 motor, and the .952 is the 81(in wagon)-85 w123 motor... the a is a shorthand to include ALL turbo 617's without having to type all the .95x stuff.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
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Merchevy- I hate to derail your thread, but you mentioned selling a chevy bellhousing adapter kit. Who makes this kit? It was my understanding that this is not a good idea. I was told that the OM crank relies on the MB torque converter for balancing. I have no way of speaking from experience, but this was explained to me from a real knowledgeable fellow in Canada that has performed many re powers using 617 and 616 engines. He told me that folks who CNC'd adapters to mate to their OEM tranny's eventually experienced main bearing failure, and that if you wanted to perform a conversion, you'd be best to retain the auto behind it. I'd be interested in hearing from folks that have experience in this field. I've seen many a standard conversions using the OM617 on Youtube, and I've always wondered how their conversion turned out in the long haul; whether they experienced bearing failure. or not.
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1984 W123 300D turbo 1989 SRW F-350 Reg. cab 4X4 &7.3 w/ Banks turbo 1993 Cherokee 2dr 2wd w/ 4.0 L6 2007 20ft Tiger car hauler trailer |
#15
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That's the first I've heard of that issue, so that's worth checking into. I got the adapter from Bendson's here Transmission Adapters and the guy I talked to seemed pretty knowledgeable.
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