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-   -   Symptoms of a bad IP delivery valve? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=310112)

bipolardave 12-20-2011 07:00 AM

Symptoms of a bad IP delivery valve?
 
Last night I replaced some of the clear fuel hoses. I've had the fuel filters and injection lines off before soo I think that I got the system vented properly afterwards.

The car starts but shakes and sputters. Dropping it into gear outright kills it.

Whlie putting the #1 injection line back on, I had to keep fidgeting with the connection at the IP. The knurled knob atop the delivery valve kept spinning with the fuel line. The aluminum "wedge thingie" was missing so it wasn't locked in place.

I've loosened and reconnected all the hoses and vented again. After letting the car sit overnight, I got it to fire up again but it still sputters. That tells me that it didn't lose it's prime overnight so I think that my supply is back together ok.

However, if I loosen #1 hard line a the injector and pump by hand, it's always gurgling fuel. Not so with the other injector lines. I've repeated this several times with the same results regardless of crank position.

My hunch is that I've either damaged the delivery valve or ruined the washer/seal beneath from overtightening. Now, that delivery valve is partially or fully open all the time and #1 injector is constantly getting fuel but can't build up enough pressure to open the injector.

Is this logical? Anything else to consider?

Beagle 12-20-2011 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850308)
Whlie putting the #1 injection line back on, I had to keep fidgeting with the connection at the IP. The knurled knob atop the delivery valve kept spinning with the fuel line. The aluminum "wedge thingie" was missing so it wasn't locked in place.

Where is the spline lock???

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850308)
However, if I loosen #1 hard line a the injector and pump by hand, it's always gurgling fuel. Not so with the other injector lines. I've repeated this several times with the same results regardless of crank position.

It is impossible to hand pump fuel to the injector - unless you have assembled the D-valve incorrectly AND the control rod is jammed in the “Stop” (i.e. “no fuel” position). The hand primer can never overcome the 360psi necessary to open the D-valve or by-pass the metering element in the ‘Start’ or “Run” positions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850308)
My hunch is that I've either damaged the delivery valve or ruined the washer/seal beneath from overtightening. Now, that delivery valve is partially or fully open all the time and #1 injector is constantly getting fuel but can't build up enough pressure to open the injector.

By over-tightening the hard line you have likely turned the metering element body which in turn has moved the No.1 calibration clamp on the control rod (rack). Over-tightening anything on the fuel pump can distort the body and jam the control rod among other things – a death sentence for a fuel pump. I’m afraid the moral of the story is unless you have a very thorough knowledge of the fuel injection system “don’t mess with it!” – it is not something you can pick up from a forum such as this. From what you have posted here it looks like you will need at least a re-calibration. I would suggest that you find a reputable Fuel Injection shop in your area, talk to the manager and explain exactly what you have done and take it from there.

bipolardave 12-20-2011 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle (Post 2850372)
Where is the spline lock???

Good question. It was there when I had an indie shop replace the timing chain in August. It wasn't there when I worked on it last night.



Quote:

It is impossible to hand pump fuel to the injector - unless you have assembled the D-valve incorrectly AND the control rod is jammed in the “Stop” (i.e. “no fuel” position). The hand primer can never overcome the 360psi necessary to open the D-valve or by-pass the metering element in the ‘Start’ or “Run” positions.
It idles, so I assume that it's in run. No?


Quote:

By over-tightening the hard line you have likely turned the metering element body which in turn has moved the No.1 calibration clamp on the control rod (rack). Over-tightening anything on the fuel pump can distort the body and jam the control rod among other things – a death sentence for a fuel pump. I’m afraid the moral of the story is unless you have a very thorough knowledge of the fuel injection system “don’t mess with it!” – it is not something you can pick up from a forum such as this. From what you have posted here it looks like you will need at least a re-calibration. I would suggest that you find a reputable Fuel Injection shop in your area, talk to the manager and explain exactly what you have done and take it from there.
Already called. They said to try to remove the fuel line at the IP and then the element body(?) to make sure that the washer wasn't busted or the spring broken.

I've check IP timing with the drip method, so I had this off bit off before.

I'm also going to be in touch with the Philster to order a new lock.

Thanks!

pimpernell 12-20-2011 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850308)
Last night I replaced some of the clear fuel hoses. I've had the fuel filters and injection lines off before soo I think that I got the system vented properly afterwards.

The car starts but shakes and sputters. Dropping it into gear outright kills it.

Whlie putting the #1 injection line back on, I had to keep fidgeting with the connection at the IP. The knurled knob atop the delivery valve kept spinning with the fuel line. The aluminum "wedge thingie" was missing so it wasn't locked in place.

I've loosened and reconnected all the hoses and vented again. After letting the car sit overnight, I got it to fire up again but it still sputters. That tells me that it didn't lose it's prime overnight so I think that my supply is back together ok.

However, if I loosen #1 hard line a the injector and pump by hand, it's always gurgling fuel. Not so with the other injector lines. I've repeated this several times with the same results regardless of crank position.

My hunch is that I've either damaged the delivery valve or ruined the washer/seal beneath from overtightening. Now, that delivery valve is partially or fully open all the time and #1 injector is constantly getting fuel but can't build up enough pressure to open the injector.

Is this logical? Anything else to consider?

When the delivery valve is replaced, it needs to be torqued correctly, and locked into place, otherwise it will not function properly. Without the "lock thingie" in place, I am sure that the delivery valve is no longer torqued correctly. Your cheapest and best bet would be to get a new delivery valve seal and crush washer, and install it correctly and see if that remedies your problem. If not, then you may need to have things looked at by a professional. Good luck

Beagle 12-20-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850375)
Good question. It was there when I had an indie shop replace the timing chain in August. It wasn't there when I worked on it last night.

Replace it before you reassemble. Torque to 40nm. and hard lines to 25nm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850375)
It idles, so I assume that it's in run. No?

Yes, but is it firing on No.1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolardave (Post 2850375)
They said to try to remove the fuel line at the IP and then the element body(?) to make sure that the washer wasn't busted or the spring broken.

Remove ONLY the splined pipe connection, D-valve and spring. Clean everything very thoroughly and replace D-valve with flat aligned to pin and a new copper washer (from Bosch agent only).

bipolardave 12-20-2011 05:12 PM

Done and done, with a huge sigh of relief.

I relocated the lock from the rear hard lines to the front and finally got #1 fuel line removed. The indie shop used some monster torque to get it attached to the D valve. It was probably 2 full turns beyond what was necessary.

Anyway, the D valve had worked itself too loose while I was fidgeting with the injector line last night. I tightened it 30-30-35 nm and now all it is well.

The one good thing to come of this is that I discovered that my car has enough power to run minus a cylinder. Not bad for a nearly 40 year old gal...

Thanks for the help.


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