95e300d oil gain - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

jhunt253 · #1 12-14-2011, 04:30 PM

driving down the highway at 60mph, my engine shuddered, blew dark smoke,and just didn't sound right. at first i thought she was coming apart. slowing down to 50 it ran smother and the smoke changed from dark to light colored. i drove it home, about a mile and though it continued to smoke it seemed to run fine. once home, i raised the hood looking for the worst, the engine idled well and the smoking went away.everything seemed normal. i drove to my shop and started looking for a problem, the car had done this 2 days before. then i reasoned i had a bad batch of motion lotion so i drained it and replaced it with fresh from the hess station. sure that was it, i drove it for anther 40 miles with no problem before today's episode. now i was sure it was something else. just for the heck of it i checked the oil. whoa! the level was up over an inch and 1/2, i figure about a gallon at least. [definitely not coolant] motion lotion i suspect. i had just changed the oil less than 500 miles ago. pulling the resonance tube to start checking stuff i notice that there was a bunch of oil/fuel? in the bottom of the intake,3 to 4 ounces. what gives? where is this stuff [fuel] coming from? i'm sorta guessing that the crank stirred up the oil/fuel? bigtime and some got through the pcv valve into the intake, after enough built up a big wad was sucked in [hydraulic lock, i hope not] causing the smoke and mayham. but where is this stuff coming from?

thanks, hunt

barry123400 · #2 12-14-2011, 05:56 PM

High oil level may have foamed driving oil out of the engine into the intake in the foam form. This occured at substantial revolutions on the highway remember.

Drop engine oil level to say mid point on the dipstick marks and check it for a few days before looking further for trouble. If the engine oil seems thin or strange change it of course. Just make sure to terminate the refill at less than full.

As far as I am aware of the only way additional fluid levels in the engine base can rise would be through a bad o ring in the lift pump. Less so a chance in the fuel injection pump I would think as the fuel pressure is only about 15 psi where the oil pressure from the engine to the lubrication sump of the injection pumps should be higher.

I did not mention anti freeze as you should have noticed it fall off to overfill the engine that much.

jhunt253 · #3 12-14-2011, 06:14 PM

the engine oil level was correct after i changed it.approximately 8 quarts. in 500miles or less it has gained at least one gallon. so where did it come from?
the engine has been running well with no apparent missing. i have also been chasing a clicking noise that sounds like a lifter but i'm sure it is not. i keep winding up tracing the sound to the injectors, the sound also has pretty much the same intensity at the ip line connectors, can the ip be the culprit?

thanks, hunt

jhunt253 · #4 12-14-2011, 06:24 PM

barry sorry i didn't read your post well, thanks, sounds like the lift pump o ring
is the culprit. is that a big deal to replace?

hunt

Diesel911 · #5 12-14-2011, 09:52 PM

X2 on the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump O-ring
The O-ring seals the push rod on the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump. On one side you have Fuel on the other you have the Engine Oil that lubes the Fuel Injection Pump.
I am adding a pic of the Lift Pump. It looks like if the seals at 1 and/or 2 go bad it can leak Diesel Fuel into the Oil.

barry123400 · #6 12-14-2011, 09:59 PM

I do not know but suspect not. You should really look at an exploded view in a manual to make sure. If the o ring has deteriorated a universal one should do to replace it.

Remember I am not familar with the newer style lift pump your car has. The older 123s use a different lift pump but I suspect with the same basic mechanical operating system.

Hopefully someone with an engine of your type will post if he has dealt with this problem. I really questioned if it could have been getting in from the actual injection pump. With the engine firing on all cylinders unless I missed something . I still think not.

Actually you will have to inspect the lift pump parts very carefully when you knock it down. It could have been the source of the clicking noise as well. If so it is more than just an o ring bad in there.

Diesel 911 posted as I was getting this typed. I examined his provided diagram Plus added the last paragraph.

Diesel911 · #7 12-14-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

I do not know but suspect not. You should really look at an exploded view in a manual to make sure. If the o ring has deteriorated a universal one should do to replace it.

Remember I am not familar with the newer style lift pump your car has. The older 123s use a different lift pump but I suspect with the same basic mechanical operating system.

Hopefully someone with an engine of your type will post if he has dealt with this problem. I really questioned if it could have been getting in from the actual injection pump. With the engine firing on all cylinders unless I missed something . I still think not.

The older Lift Pumps also have an O-ring.
Besides leaking Fuel out (which is more common) some members have had the experience where the Oil gets sucked into and mixed with the Fuel to be Injected.

jhunt253 · #8 12-15-2011, 01:34 PM

thanks for your help. i have removed the lift pump and changed the o rings, i have my doubts whether that is it, the o rings i removed looked ok. is there any other place i should check before i put this back together? can it be leaking by the ip?

thanks, hunt

Diesel911 · #9 12-15-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhunt253

thanks for your help. i have removed the lift pump and changed the o rings, i have my doubts whether that is it, the o rings i removed looked ok. is there any other place i should check before i put this back together? can it be leaking by the ip?

thanks, hunt

The Elements in the Fuel Injection Pump are lubricated by Diesel Fuel so a tiny bit of Diesel Fuel is always getting into everyone’s Oil.
With long use (worn out) and/or dirt scoring up the Plungers and Barrels of the Elements they can leak more.

A more unusual circumstance is if for some reason the Elements barrel is not seated in the Fuel Injection Pump Housing well were the metal to metal contact is. (Or a crack or porosity in the Fuel Injection Pump Housing.)

Checking the max torque on the Delivery Valve Holders on the M type Fuel Injection Pumps might show if any of the Elements are loose.
Other than that there is no easy way to tell.

Worn or scored Elements in a Fuel Injection Pump often cause hard starting when the Engine is hot.

When running a Fuel Injection Pump on the Test Stand and it has a removable cover and the leak is really bad you some times can see the leak if it is large enough to form a drop. But, this is not helpful if the IP is on the Vehicle.

On the 617s the only other way Fuel can get into the Engine Oil is an Injector that is not atomizing the Fuel or if there is not enough heat or compression to ignite the atomized Fuel.

Air&Road · #10 12-15-2011, 03:48 PM

Make sure you check your radiator. If there is a loss there, it might be finding it's way into the crankcase.

Good luck with it.

jhunt253 · #11 12-15-2011, 05:46 PM

drained over 4 gallons out of that sucker, replaced it with 4gts 20w60 aviation oil, and three quarts 20wt hd, didn't change the filter. 70 lbs oil pressure at cold idle, engine ran fine. will see. coolant level is fine. thanks for your help and i hope this episode is over with. what's next. haven't worked on
a car so much since my old healey

thanks, hunt

engatwork · #12 12-15-2011, 06:26 PM

Don't start an oil thread but you need to be running either Delo 400 or Mobile 1 Truck & Turbodiesel or whatever they are calling it these days.

jhunt253 · #13 12-15-2011, 06:56 PM

jim, i used the heavy oil, thinking the thin fuel/oil left in the system[i didn't change the filter] would dilute it to about the right viscosity. it'll be changed to the more better good stuff after i'm sure my problem has been solved.

thanks, hunt

engatwork · #14 12-15-2011, 07:11 PM

i c

Got to have that diesel rating

.

jhunt253 · #15 12-16-2011, 04:46 PM

well crap! drove the car 15miles today and gained a quart and 1/2 so i reckon it wasn't the lift pump. also the ticking noise came back because the oil was thinning out i think. with the car starting so easily even with the engine hot and running so smoothly it makes me think [hope] that it is not the injection function of the pump and injectors. it seems to me that it wouldn't run well if the "function" was losing that much fuel, that's approximately 30% of the fuel that it took me to go to and from walmart. anymore thoughts?

thanks, joe hunt