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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:27 AM
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B20 or better in new IP, midlife engine?

This is probably better posted in the alternative fuel forum, but it's slow and I'd be preaching to the choir. I'd rather run it by some skeptics.

Anyway, new IP and engine is probably mid life. There's no place to buy biodiesel here in WV, so I was interested in brewing my own and blending with diesel to get B20 or perhaps even B50 in a single tank system and going back to straight diesel or B5 during the winter months.

I understand that the lack of lubricity in modern fuels could cause premature wear on fuel injectors and IPs. So I'd like to explore biodiesel and get some of that back while at the same time, avoiding possible long term damage from straight VO or filtered WVO. Not to mention, I don't want to cut up my car to install a two tank system.

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  #2  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:37 AM
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Properly made biodiesel at all blends is good for the engine and injection pump. Your IP doesn't have seals that leak from biodiesel like the later 60x engines. The IPs in the 123 and earlier models don't start leaking from biodiesel use. Biodiesel has a higher lubricity than D2 has which actually benefits the IP. Even at low levels like B10 you get much higher lubricity values. The only draw back to properly made biodiesel is the gelling during the cold months. If temps start dropping and staying below freezing B20 may start gelling on you. Usually B20 is a pretty safe blend for most temps. But keeping a gallon jug of what is in your tank sitting out will give you an idea of what the fuel in your tank is doing.

Poorly or improperly made biodiesel will cause issues, so make sure you are making it correctly.

Also you don't need a two tank system for biodiesel. You can switch back and forth between B100 and D2 in one tank with not problems. The fuels are interchangeable so a second tank is not needed.
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post

Poorly or improperly made biodiesel will cause issues, so make sure you are making it correctly.

That seems to be the operative phrase.

I'd primarily researched just two tank WVO systems before and didn't like what I'd learned. Biodiesel seem to be the way to go.

I'll start inquiring around town for sources of oil. If there's no issue with helping myself to a few gallons, then I'll start pricing chemicals and systems.

I don't drive enough to get any financial gain from this. I'm just primarily concerned about keeping my "survivor" going strong for not just myself, but the next owner should it come to that.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:26 PM
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There is a Spicer test on Fuel Additives.
Can't remember all of the details but it was Diesel Fuel with 1%or2% Biodiesel that produced the smallest Wear Scar.

If you want your Fuel Injection Pump to last longer better Filtration is another answer.

I have an absolute 2 Micron CAT Secondary Filter on mine replacing the 10 nominal Micron stock spin-on Secondary Fuel Filter.
Others have used other Filters to do the same.

Also remember your Fuel Injection Pump is also lubricated by the Engine Oil. This means filtering the Engine Oil better will also benefit the Fuel Injection Pump.
I have a bypass Oil Filter that filters down to 0.50 nominal Microns.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post
Properly made biodiesel at all blends is good for the engine and injection pump. Your IP doesn't have seals that leak from biodiesel like the later 60x engines.

Neither of my OM60x IPs leak due to biodiesel or biodiesel blends. The OM606 in particular is dry as a bone with over 283,000 miles on the engine and its never-serviced IP. We've used everything from B100 to winter-blend D2 for tens of thousands of miles in both cars. Fuel lines and o-rings do need to be upgraded to Viton, of course, and this was somewhat a pain and expense with the later of the two cars. Earlier engines are simpler and less expensive to upgrade, an advantage to the OM61x.

Making small quantities of biodiesel is probably not worth the effort but if there is no commercial source then I suppose you are stuck making your own. Given that blends as low as 1% or 2% seems to be enough to provide the necessary lubricity enhancement, you might calculate how much B100 you would need per month and offer to support a friend who is interested in making biodiesel. At 1% - 2% you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade the rubber parts.

Jeremy
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:51 PM
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Leaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post
Properly made biodiesel at all blends is good for the engine and injection pump. Your IP doesn't have seals that leak from biodiesel like the later 60x engines.

Neither of my OM60x IPs leak due to biodiesel or biodiesel blends. The OM606 in particular is dry as a bone with over 283,000 miles on the engine and its never-serviced IP. We've used everything from B100 to winter-blend D2 for tens of thousands of miles in both cars. Fuel lines and o-rings do need to be upgraded to Viton, of course, and this was somewhat a pain and expense with the later of the two cars. Earlier engines are simpler and less expensive to upgrade, an advantage to the OM61x.

Making small quantities of biodiesel is probably not worth the effort but if there is no commercial source then I suppose you are stuck making your own. Given that blends as low as 1% or 2% seems to be enough to provide the necessary lubricity enhancement, you might calculate how much B100 you would need per month and offer to support a friend who is interested in making biodiesel. At 1% - 2% you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade the rubber parts.

Jeremy
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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
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  #7  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
There is a Spicer test on Fuel Additives.
Can't remember all of the details but it was Diesel Fuel with 1%or2% Biodiesel that produced the smallest Wear Scar.

If you want your Fuel Injection Pump to last longer better Filtration is another answer.

I have an absolute 2 Micron CAT Secondary Filter on mine replacing the 10 nominal Micron stock spin-on Secondary Fuel Filter.
Others have used other Filters to do the same.

Also remember your Fuel Injection Pump is also lubricated by the Engine Oil. This means filtering the Engine Oil better will also benefit the Fuel Injection Pump.
I have a bypass Oil Filter that filters down to 0.50 nominal Microns.
Thanks.

My IP isn't lubed by the engine oil, but I see where you're coming from.

Do you finer filters impede fuel flow?
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  #8  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolardave View Post
Thanks.

My IP isn't lubed by the engine oil, but I see where you're coming from.

Do you finer filters impede fuel flow?
But it still has it's own lubricant. The problems arise with the Bosch VE IPs that VW uses which are lubricated by the fuel. VW IPs can start leaking pretty badly with the use of biodiesel. But this is not a concern for us.

Jeremy does point out something I forgot. Natural rubber and biodiesel don't like each other. Biodiesel turns rubber to goo. It usually takes a quite a while for it to happen but it will eventually brake it down. However if you are running low blends it may not happen. But if you fuel lines are original the biodiesel may start to degrade them. Viton is the best material for running biodiesel. But most hoses will hold up for many years. Pure Viton is expensive, over $12/foot (last time I looked) for 5/16", and you'll need 5-6 feet to replace all the fuel lines as well as about that much of 1/8" for the injector return lines. A much cheaper substitute is viton lined hose which is SAE 30R9. Much cheaper and more durable.
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  #9  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Neither of my OM60x IPs leak due to biodiesel or biodiesel blends. The OM606 in particular is dry as a bone with over 283,000 miles on the engine and its never-serviced IP. We've used everything from B100 to winter-blend D2 for tens of thousands of miles in both cars. Fuel lines and o-rings do need to be upgraded to Viton, of course, and this was somewhat a pain and expense with the later of the two cars. Earlier engines are simpler and less expensive to upgrade, an advantage to the OM61x.
Jeremy
Some have experienced leaky delivery valve seals. You speak of o-rings, are you talking about the deliver valve o-rings, or the fuel fitting o-rings?
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Given that blends as low as 1% or 2% seems to be enough to provide the necessary lubricity enhancement, you might calculate how much B100 you would need per month and offer to support a friend who is interested in making biodiesel. At 1% - 2% you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade the rubber parts.

Jeremy

Funny you mention that as I'm one step ahead of you.

I have a collegue who travels 50 miles each way and complained about her fuel economy. She became intrigued after I mentioned the idea in passing. Anyway, I have the space and she has the initiative.

I'm steering her towards a 123 or 201 for simplicity's sake.

I was going to get one for myself and run B100, but we don't drive enough with our existing 4 cars to justify having a fifth. Given our close promity to work, it's a serious struggle to even put a few hundred miles/month on even our new Volvo S60 T6.

Instead, I'll experiment with my 240D so long as I can have peace of mind that I'm not doing any harm. I might not even limit myself to low percentages if I find myself driving it more.
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:50 PM
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if you are near inwood, apparently the farmers market there sells B100.
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:30 PM
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If done correctley , a two tank wvo system will not hurt ur engine. I have aprox 60,000 miles on wvo and zero fuel related issues. If done wrong yes it can kill ur engine. I recentley just had my head off because of blown head gasket (non wvo related) and the pistions, cylinder walls, valves looked great. no issues.

Also i can run wvo in below zero temps, which u could not do with a 1 tank system running high concentrations of bio diesel or a 1 tank wvo system.

bio diesel may be easier in the beginning as far as vehicle mods go, but i think you will save more money in the long run because u don't have to blend it with diesel or pay for the supplies to make bio. All i spend money on is a few filters, that it

I have gotten 2500 miles to one tank of diesel fuel (15 gallons) in the summer. Obviousley i went thru many tanks of oil. I drive a substancial distance to work every day though.
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolardave View Post
Thanks.

My IP isn't lubed by the engine oil, but I see where you're coming from.

Do you finer filters impede fuel flow?
The CAT Filter is at lest double + the size of the Stock Filter. I have had no difference in performance.
It could be that in the face of some contaminated Fuel it would plug up sooner; but, that is what we want the Filter to do. I keep an Extra Filter in the Trunk.
Also the CAT Filter has a larger Threaded hole. That allowed me to make an adapter that uses the Stock Filter Housing.
This means that to go back to using the Stock Filter all I need to do is to remove the Adapter. So, if I was on the Road somewhere and could not get a CAT Filter I could just buy a Stock Type Filter.

Sorry I did not notice what year your Car is so I did not notice you IP was not lubed by the Engine.
From what I have seen as long as a person keeps the non-engine lubed Fuel Injection Pumps filled with Oil properly and change it when it needs changing the parts inside the Pump look better than the parts of Pumps lubed by the Engine.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2012, 02:18 AM
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I've been running various concentrations in mine for several years. I didn't see the issue with rubber hoses until I started running B99 consistently for several months. At B20 or lower it didn't become an issue. I don't have the link to the company I bought the Viton hose kit from handy, but it's on here if you search. I think I paid about $40 with shipping, and it takes care of all the rubber hoses in the fuel system. I think the kit for four cylinder models is a few bucks cheaper.

There is a slight difference in energy density between dino and biodiesel. This shows up as a slight decrease in fuel economy. I also experimentally determined that my 300D goes 2-3 mph faster on top end using straight dino than B20. However, if I want to go 110 or more, I have a Ninja for that.

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