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  #1  
Old 02-10-2002, 01:45 AM
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Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
1982 240d purchase help

I test drove a 1982 240d with 163k miles today.

It drove real nice. Shifting was smooth, no smoke.

But, I noticed a few things that I needed some help on. There was a humming or whirring coming from the back-end. It only did it during a firm acceleration. If I was going 50mph and let off the gas, the noise went away. Then, if I pressed just a little on the gas pedal, I could tell it was moving the rpm's up and there was still no humming, but if I pressed it more, the humming started.

What could this be? Differntial? If so, is it a problem? It's shifted and drove fine, but the noise has me a little concerned.

Also, there were some wet/oily spots in the engine. One place I noticed was on the right side of the radiator. There was a silver, radiator looking piece to the right of the radiator. It wasn't part of the radiator from what I could tell, but it definately looked like it was designed for cooling. Anyway, it was some oil around it.

I also noticed the bottom of the rear diff was wet. Not sure if it was blowby or what, but maybe it's related to the humming sound?

Transmission fluid was nice and red, but the engine oil was jet black. Don't know if this is common on diesels or not.

Anyway, I'm hoping what I've mentioned isn't too big a deal because the price is almost just right. A couple of more things. It looked like the car may have rear-ended someone. The hood had a dent and the front grill was messed up. Also, the two metal bracings behind the grill, in front of the radiator looked a little bent.

Also had the somewhat common problem not being able to shut it off. We ended up turning the idle knob way down and pressing the stop switch under the hood. I suppose this is vacuum related. The doors locked o.k., but the cruise didn't work.

That's about it. Please advise on what else to look for and if what I've mentioned could turn into big problems in the near future.

Thanks!

1994 C280 129k miles

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1994 C280 204k miles
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2002, 04:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA
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I'm not gonna guess about the humming noise. My 83 300D doesnt hum and It could be several things. most likely your guess about the differential is right. Dont worry about the oil, it will be jet black within 50 miles of changing it. It gets black, but if you use good diesel oil it can easily last 4000 miles between changes.

The "cooler" on the side of the radiator is the oil cooler. Since it cools the oil, your comment about the oil film on it sounds like it may have a very slight leak on one of the fittings. not to worry. little oil leaks are very common, and usually painless to fix.

The humming noise would be my concern at this point. may be worth checking the diff fluid prior to purchase for abnormal metal shavings or leakage.
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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 145,000MI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 287,000MI
2001 Suzuki SV650S 26,000MI
2008 Yamaha Vino 125 11,000MI
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2002, 12:49 PM
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Post WARNING: I am a newbie (-;

So, where would I check the diff fluid from? I assume from the diff itself. I've read some threads about getting the plug off and it doesn't sound like you just unscrew a bolt like you do for the engine oil. But, I think you guys are right, it didn't seem like much to worry about, just a little annoying.

So, what would a new/used diff cost (approx)? How hard are they to replace?

TxBill, you say it may still hum after a used diff was installed to replace the current one. Is this because the problem may exist elsewhere or just that the used one would have the problem with it was well?

I think I might purchase the car. He's asking $1,800. I had him down to $1,700 before I left. I would like to get around $1,500 or a little less, I think that would be a good price??? He didn't sound like he would budge too much. What do ya'll think? Too high? It's a 1982 240d with 163k original miles. Occasional shutoff problem, no cruise, dented hood, and rear diff hum.

I guess if I said that it will need a new diff, vacuum lines will have to be fixed, and the oil cooler needs to be fixed, maybe he would come down more?

Thanks a bunch guys!

Daniel

1994 C280 129k miles
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2002, 01:55 PM
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$250 for a used diff isn't too bad. How much for a shop to put it in you reckon?

Something else I forgot to mention. When I pulled the cover off the air filter, I stuck my finger back into the hose that connects to it and there was some (not much really) oil in there. The air filter was clean, but is this normal too?

And, what is that small/short hose that connects to the top of the engine, just behind and to the left of the oil cap? It was a little loose and wet around it.

Forgot to mention...it's an automatic.
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Last edited by dwcasey; 02-10-2002 at 02:01 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2002, 02:03 PM
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Location: Woolwich, Maine
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dwcasey,

The humming can be the differential as you have noted, or it can be the center support bearing on the drive shaft. The center support bearing is not something I would do as I have limited tools and no lift. I have had it done on cars in the past for around $100 at an independent mechanic's place. That was a long time ago though, so it might be twice that today.

I would change the differential fluid and the vent on the top. I would put in some Redline (www.redlineoil.com) "Shockproof" gear lubricant in and see if the problem persists with the humming. My experience has been that this stuff (the heavy formula, anyway) changes the acoustic response of the gear meshing and unmeshing, and really tones down a differential. Yours, if there is leakage around the unit, may be leaking and have little or no fluid in there.

If the car is in decent shape you will get at least another 160,000 miles of good service from it for $1500 or $1700. I agree with another comment that there are relatively few potential customers for this car, so if the guy really wants to sell, he will likely be willing to deal. Good Luck, and enjoy the car if your negotiations are successful. Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2002, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
Well, I guess this thread is about to wrap up for now. One more question, what kind of books/manuals should I get? I tried to find some at this website, but I guess I'm not searching correctly because I didn't turn anything up.

I imagine the Chilton's and Haynes manuals are probably not the best around. Where else can I look?

Thanks again for all the help. I will call the guy next week and make an offer.
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1994 C280 204k miles
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2002, 02:49 PM
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Thanks.
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2002, 03:22 PM
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One more thing. If I get the car, I have to drive it approximately 80 miles back home. Will the rear diff be o.k.?

How can I check it's fluid level/condition and where do I put more in if needed? Tools needed?

If the car doesn't have to be on jacks to inspect/change the rear diff fluid, then I was going to drive to a nice flat spot on the way home and do the maint before I drive it 80 miles.

Also, it seems that Redline fluids are recommended a lot, what would I put in the rear diff?

Would an AutoZone or O'reilly carry this?
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2002, 05:32 PM
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Location: Northern VA
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I recommend redline as well. The previous recommendation of the redline "heavyweight" shockproof gear oil is a good one. It will quiet it down as well as giving your rear end the ultimate protection. It takes a large allen wrench to remove the drain and fill plug on my 300D. You will need a fluid pump to refill it.. (any auto shop will sell this, it looks like the pump on top of a soap container but bigger with a hose to fill the differential.)

Redline cannot be purchassed at major chain shops. They sell to smaller race and performance shops. I would guess it will be fine for the 80 mile drive, but considering how easy it is to change, you could certainly do it before you leave. Tell the seller your concerned about it and maybe he will help!

If you dont wanna spend the $$ and time to find redline, I often use Valvoline syn-power full synthetic 80w-90 gear oil and it will give you plenty of protection. Its up to you.. but if it was my car, I would at least change it out with valvoline prior to taking the trip (It will at least give you the peace of mind knowing all the oil hasnt leaked out, since its not a common maintnece item.)
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2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 145,000MI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 287,000MI
2001 Suzuki SV650S 26,000MI
2008 Yamaha Vino 125 11,000MI
http://www.crazymatt.org
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2002, 10:10 PM
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True, true. Thanks for the advice.

Big allen head, eh? I'll see what I take with me _if_ he accepts my offer.

I've got a feeling that he won't take it. I'm thinking about offering $1,400. That's only $300 down from where we were when I left, but I don't think he'll take it. If not, it wasn't meant to be I suppose.

Thanks for all the information folks.
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2002, 10:29 PM
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Posts: 178
I dunno what size, but I'd guess a solid 14mm or so. I'll check tomorrow.
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Matt
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI 145,000MI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 287,000MI
2001 Suzuki SV650S 26,000MI
2008 Yamaha Vino 125 11,000MI
http://www.crazymatt.org
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2002, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
dwcasey,

The fill, and level checking plug is on the side of the differential (the right side on my 190E and 240D) and it is a 14 mm hex socket.

In a level area, without ramps or some way to elevate the car, you will be hard pressed to get the space needed to remove the plug and add fluid, then reinstall the plug, but it can be done. I have done this by putting the car up on a jack and jack stands, removing the fill plug, then the drain plug, draining the stuff out, putting the drain plug back in, and filling the differential. I put the fill plug back in kind of loose, and then lowered the car back onto the level area. I pulled the fill plug back out and let the excess run out, then put the plug back in and tightened it. The fill plug, and I believe the drain plug, are tapered pipe threaded plugs. Both take the 14 mm Allen wrench, which I believe is available from Sears. I got mine from Snap-On about twenty five years ago, but I think Sears has them now.

I loosen the plug by tapping on the "handle" of the Allen wrench in the openning direction with a hammer or mallet, then turn it by hand. I tighten them using the same method. I tighten to the best I can by hand, then tap the handle to get the last flat or so with the hammer.

If the fill plug comes out and no oil leaks out, you need to add some. If you put your finger in and can not feel any oil, you probably need enough that it is worth just draining and refilling with new stuff.

I like the Redline High Shock, heavy weight gear oil. You do not have a limited slip differential so you can likely use any suitable heavy gear oil. I prefer the Redline stuff because it is fully synthetic and the additive package for the high shock stuff is especially suited to reducing noise from the rubbing contact between the gears.

I am not associated with Redline, just a happy customer. It is expensive and you have to go to their website to find a local distributor. In my area a big snowmobile dealer is the closest dealer and he has a full line of their products. Good Luck, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2002, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 179
Unhappy

Well, he didn't bite. I offered $1,200 and he said that he would keep driving for a while. Oh well, I'll keep looking.

The more I thought about it, though, I figured the 300d is probably a better move, so I've got my eyes open looking...

Thanks for all the help and I'll keep it handy if/when I need it again.
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1994 C280 204k miles
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2002, 11:43 AM
Jim B+
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My main concerns would be if

the oil pressure gauge wasn't reading near "3" when the engine was under load, maybe excessive smoke or oil use between 3000mi changes.

Don't think I could hear rear-end noise over the engine! Have you ruled out tire noise?

Sounds like you have a good 'un that should last a long time.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2002, 01:25 PM
LarryBible
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The diff plug is 14MM. On the diff you can get to both of them pretty easy, the one on the transmission(I'm assuming it's a manual, an automatic 240D is not a good combinations) is difficult to get at.

The shut off problem is undoubtedly vacuum related, the vac problems are very easy to troubleshoot and cheap to fix, it will usually be a soft line rotted or a door lock diaphragm leaking. The door lock diaphragms are about $10.

On the 123, the Haynes manual is the best information for the money, it is a very good manual on these cars.

Good luck,

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