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  #1  
Old 04-24-2012, 12:24 AM
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1985 300D starting issue

Ok, I've read so many posts about starting problems and maybe now, I'm confused.

I have the issue with my 300D where it will sometimes not start. No click, no clicking, silence. I also seem to have the delay (having to hold key in the start position for up to a minute) with cold weather, and then it turns over.

Thanks to this forum, I learned the way to jump terminals 1 and 3 on top of the right front fender. This will ALWAYS start the engine.

My question is: What am I actually bypassing by jumping these terminals?

I replaced the electrical side of the ignition switch less than 25K miles ago.

Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated. I'm seriously considering selling this car and I am wondering if I should spend the money on a new starter or whatever else is needed in order to resolve this problem.

Thanks,
Ken

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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2012, 12:33 AM
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You're bypassing the wiring. You're probably getting reduced voltage thru the wiring so it's not quite enough to engage the solenoid. New starter might solve it if the solenoid is engagable at a lower voltage. Might not. Some people add a solenoid in the system near the starter and just use the key switch to engage that solenoid which in turns sends juice to the starter thru a shorter, newer circuit. You could also wire in a push button in the driver's compartment that jumps the terminals you jump under the hood if the key doesn't work.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2012, 12:36 AM
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nothing but silence for me on cars with auto transmissions was always neutral safety switch issues. ..
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1981 NA 300D 310k miles
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:02 AM
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I should have added that I replaced the shifter bushings just recently, as well.
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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:12 AM
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The fact that the starter engages after holding the key in position for a while seems to point to the wiring and not to the NSS in my opinion. You could try cleaning the connections at the junction box and at the starter to see if it helps.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:22 AM
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I cleaned the connections at the junction box.

A while back, I thought I found the problem. The larger of the two connections (positive) on the starter was loose. Tightened it up. No change.

More recently, found out that the transmission wiring that goes down and around the rear engine/transmission mount was exposed and shorting.

Thinking once again, that I found the problem, I fixed all the wiring up and still continue to have the same issue.
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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2012, 03:39 AM
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When you tightened up the connection of the big wire at the solenoid, did you take it apart first and clean all of the mating surfaces? If not, that could be where the problem really is.
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1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2012, 04:13 AM
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No, I just tightened it up. The starter and connections on this vehicle are so hard to get to. I would have changed out the starter already if it were a little more accessible. Do you really think that's what it is?
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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:03 AM
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Well, some years ago I had very similar problems with the 220D. When I took the wiring apart in that area it was very dark to black. After cleaning and polishing all of the mating surfaces, I put it all back together. Worked well for quite some time. Seems a lot of road grime, water, and winter salt can get in that area and really cause problems.

I certainly can't guarantee that this will be your fix, but sure helped in my case.
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1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:50 AM
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OK, thanks, Lycoming-8. I will get under there and remove the wiring and clean it up and see what the results are. If I can ALWAYS start with jumping #1 and #3 terminals, I'm assuming that the starter is good. Is that correct?
Thanks
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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:04 AM
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Yes, the starter and solenoid should be OK if that is truly the case. Also, shorting term #1 to term #3 bypasses the ignition circuit, including the NSS and wires to solenoid. So I would be careful to clean all of the wiring connections to the solenoid just to be sure all of those connections are in the best condition.
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1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
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  #12  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:04 AM
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Does this terminal jumping rule out the NSS?
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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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  #13  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:30 AM
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I am concerned that you have to crank for 1 min in cold weather in Houston. I lived in Houston 2 yrs and there is no "cold weather", but mosquitoes in January. Check that all 5 glow-plugs are OK. It is easy to do at the connector w/ a multimeter. If they check out, consider paying for a compression check (I got a cheap tester at Harbor Freight). 1 min of cranking w/ good glow plugs is close to worn enough to slip into "never starts" soon.
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  #14  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:05 AM
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If jumping the terminals 1 to 3 always results in an engine start, then it says that any or all of the things bypassed could be the problem. This includes the NSS, the "ignition" electrical switch, and all of the bypassed wiring.

In re-reading the initial post, it says that the minute is the wait time before the starter starts to operate, not that a minute of starter time is required for the engine to fire.
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1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycoming-8 View Post
If jumping the terminals 1 to 3 always results in an engine start, then it says that any or all of the things bypassed could be the problem. This includes the NSS, the "ignition" electrical switch, and all of the bypassed wiring.

In re-reading the initial post, it says that the minute is the wait time before the starter starts to operate, not that a minute of starter time is required for the engine to fire.
Lycoming,

Your re-read is correct. I do not have 1 minute of cranking in cold weather. I occasionally have 1 min of silence in cold weather until the starter engages.

During warm weather, for example, it will start at home for my 40 mile commute to work. I will stop a few miles before work to buy Lotto, and then NO START. Jump terminals #1 and #3 on fender and I'm off to work. This sometimes happens when engine is cold or hot.

Since I replaced the electrical portion of the ignition switch and I've done the NSS 'test" (that I've read on this forum by unplugging something by the kick down switch by the pedal and jumping some wire or something), do you think that maybe the 27 year old wiring of anything related to the starting circuit is possibly corroded within the wire insulation and causing so much resistance or something that it will not send enough voltage to the starter?

A lot of this posting is redundant. I just wanted to include as much info that I could in case someone doesn't want to go back and read the old posts.

Anyone else have any input?

Thanks so much,

Ken

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'85 300D 190K miles
running on B100 Biodiesel since 156K, SCRATCH THAT! I can only find Biodiesel at 1 location in Houston! (not very convenient)
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