Help needed installing IP & timing

[disarrae]

Ok, so I've been searching high and low, and working for 4 days on this car, and can't get it right.
'82 300SD, manual, electric fuel pump

Took the IP out, and I can't get the timing right at all.

At this point the 1st delivery valve has fuel in it from 80* BTDC to the end of the first blank space on rotation. Stops until 60* BTDC at the bottom of the stroke, continues to spit fuel until somewhere without marks.

What could I have done to get my timing so far off?
How do I fix it?

Yes the IP was set at it's stock 24* mark, engine was at 24* at the top of the stroke. Is there some magic item that I'm missing that sets the IP timing?

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by disarrae

Ok, so I've been searching high and low, and working for 4 days on this car, and can't get it right.
'82 300SD, manual, electric fuel pump

Took the IP out, and I can't get the timing right at all.

At this point the 1st delivery valve has fuel in it from 80* BTDC to the end of the first blank space on rotation. Stops until 60* BTDC at the bottom of the stroke, continues to spit fuel until somewhere without marks.

What could I have done to get my timing so far off?
How do I fix it?

Yes the IP was set at it's stock 24* mark, engine was at 24* at the top of the stroke. Is there some magic item that I'm missing that sets the IP timing?

Yes the IP was set at it's stock 24* mark, engine was at 24* on the Compression stroke?

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/320837-yet-another-ip-timing-question.html

[disarrae]

Yes on the compression stroke.

[Air&Road]

Remove the valve cover and with the IP out, put the damper on 24 and make sure the cam marks are aligned. Match the skipped tooth in the pump with the skipped tooth in the spline. Set pump to drip on number one and you should be good to go.

NOW, if someone has had it apart and didn't get the IP sprocket in correctly, this won't work, but in all likelihood it will.

Hope this helps.

[disarrae]

Suppose in the process of removing pump, the splined collar fell off. Could this be causing the radically off timing? If so, any suggestions about where to put it back on?

[disarrae]

So after going back out and testing again, this is what we have. A constant supply of fuel from 24* BTDC on the compression stroke, intake valve is at @10 o'clock and exhaust is pointing directly right. Fuel flows the until somewhere without marks. It begins to flow again at 28* BTDC on the exhaust stroke and continues all the way around to TDC. I'm thinking this is waaaaay too much fuel flow?

[Diesel911]

I think there is a concept missing.

With the Damper at 24 degrees before top dead center coming up on the Compression stroke the Fuel Injection Pump with the Timing Marks lined up on it is stuck into the Engine with the Studs in the Middle of the Kidney slot on the Fuel Injection Pump. (That gives you about an equal amount of room to rotate the IP either direction.)

The nuts are snugged down but not enough to keep you from rotating the IP.

You remove the Delivery valve Holder and remove the Delivery Valve Spring and the Center part of the Delivery Valve. Re-install the Delivery Valve Holder.
Install the Drip Tube.
Have someone Pump on the Hand Primer while you slowly rotate the Fuel Injection Pump Housing. As you rotate the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and the other person is pumping on the Hand Primer you are watching the drips.
Tipping the top of the Fuel Injection Pump towards the Engine advances the timing and towards the Fenderwell retards the timing.
So if you stuck the Pump back into the Block correctly it should not take too much gentle turning to one way or the other way to achieve the amount of drips you need.
Moving the pump fast and hashly is going to rotate it right past the sweet spot you want.

But, it is important that some one keeps the Fuel pressure as constant as they can or you Drips will be false. As an example low pressure produces less drips than high pressure does.

At no time during the proceedure do you rotate the Engine.

If someone has not mentioned it the Splined Collar can go in; in any position.

When you are done tighen the Nuts in the front and the Rear Bracket.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Remove the valve cover and with the IP out, put the damper on 24 and make sure the cam marks are aligned.

Are the cam marks supposed to align with the crankshaft at 24 degrees?

[disarrae]

We're using the well method, not the drip method AND we have an electric fuel pump, so regulating fuel pressure isn't an issue. I think something has failed in the IP. Sat we had the timing spot on just 180* off (I know stupid mistake). Since pulling the IP out and readjusting nothing has worked. When the fuel pump is on, fuel comes out of delivery valve #1 for 90% of the time when we hand crank the engine. It stops for 2 short bursts. It never slows, just keeps shooting out (with enough force to hit the rafters in the shop). We either broke something in the IP or we broke something in the IP timing mechanism in the engine.
Should there be fuel supplied to a delivery valve during 90% of every rotation of the IP?

[vstech]

Originally Posted by tangofox007

Are the cam marks supposed to align with the crankshaft at 24 degrees?

Tango.
please in the future, correct a post, don't do the ??? are you sure?? thing.

the cam marks will not be close to lined up with the crank pointer on 24BTDC... unless the chain is REALLY messed up...

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by vstech

Tango.
please in the future, correct a post, don't do the ??? are you sure?? thing.

There won't be any future posts.

[disarrae]

Our timing chain is fine, and the car ran well prior to us trying to get more fuel into it by adjusting the torque capsule, and corresponding parts. We reset it to where we started and now the fuel doesn't shut off, it even dumps during the exhaust stroke. Either way, I took it into the local injection shop and they're putting it on the bench to test. I just hope whatever broke is easily found because the car needs to be ready to race by the 18th and I feel like **** that I broke it!

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by disarrae

Our timing chain is fine, and the car ran well prior to us trying to get more fuel into it by adjusting the torque converter, and corresponding parts. We reset it to where we started and now the fuel doesn't shut off, it even dumps during the exhaust stroke. Either way, I took it into the local injection shop and they're putting it on the bench to test. I just hope whatever broke is easily found because the car needs to be ready to race by the 18th and I feel like **** that I broke it!

What is your plan if nothing is broken?

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by vstech

Tango.
please in the future, correct a post, don't do the ??? are you sure?? thing.

the cam marks will not be close to lined up with the crank pointer on 24BTDC... unless the chain is REALLY messed up...

I actually wrote and deleted a similar comment as Tango made to Air&Road but after re-reading I realized He was speaking of the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft.
I would also like to comment that I often have difficulty Myself saying what I want to say.
When Air did not say what Camshaft He was speaking of in the same sentence it made that sentence more questionable to understand.

You could as Air to go back and clerify the sentence because someone else is going to read it an not be sure about what is being said.

[disarrae]

Send it to the crusher
Honestly, tow it to someone in town. It starts and runs, but so poorly that I don't want to drive it. Maybe we broke/misaligned something in the timing mechanism? or when it backfired after the 180 misalignment we threw something out of whack. Or I'm being a total idiot. But we followed the removal/reinstall directions (except for that 180 bit), didn't mess with the sprocket, do know how to align/adjust timing (we did it before with the IP in on the dyno).
The $*(%@ reluctant race car has fought us every step of the way.

Thanks for everyone's help though, and I've learned a TON about what might fail on the track and what to do. I'll hopefully know by Friday if the IP is sound. We have a back up that's saturated in veggie oil and has sat in a none running car for 5 years (not an option). We were saving it for an upgrade. *ugh*